How many of you would say you are truly happily married?

[ConfusedishSay]

I´ve been married 10yrs to a very nice man who loves me and wants us to grow old together. I thought that´s what I wanted too, but lately I think I´m having a midlife-crisis-thingummy and the thought of being with the same person for the next 30-50 years until I die is quite literally depressing the hell out of me.
I´m trying so hard to want this traditional happy ever after, but I´m not sure I still love him and it´s making me feel guilty and hopeless. Should I just stick with it and hope it´s a passing phase?

[ConfusedishSay]

Hi Springdiva Well, my DH thought everything was fine and was just coasting along till he discovered that I was texting Mr Flirtation and was devastated. It was a huge wake up call for both of us. My behaviour surprised myself just as much as it surprised him I think!
He believes in marriage and wants to grow old together. I think he´s also TERRIFIED of the idea of being alone or starting all over again with somebody else.
He handled it a lot better than I´d expected and after a whole lot of soul-searching, realised he too was disatisfied with the relationship but the difference is that he still loves me and is very attracted to me still. Only wish it were that simple for me.

[ConfusedishSay]

Ditto, gonetobed !

[gonetobed]

confused - I so relate to your posts. For me, ive been in the very normal but boring marriage for many years, and having anything to do with someone else is just so not me! Likewise it just happened really without me looking and very innocently.

My world has been completely turned upside down over the last few months. As well as very exciting and fun its been complete hell! Having said that its the best diet I have ever been on!

[ScarboroughFayre]

confused I have just found this thread and could weep with gratitude that someone else has posted about exactly what I'm feeling. DH and I have been together 13 years and married for 8, have 2 DCs and a lovely life but I just don't fancy him any more and can just about rouse myself to have sex once a month by, like you say, keeping my eyes closed and fantasising my way through it. It makes me feel awful just admitting it, but its reassuring to see so many others feeling the same way. Has anyone found that magic wand yet?
I have never told my DH how I feel as I am sure he would be devastated. That comment / quote unthread about losing respect and following the pattern of your parents' relationship really struck a chord with me though - my mother has said for years about my father that she is really not interested in him in that way but that she will put out (my phrase not hers!) for special occasions like holidays and birthdays, as a kind of favour to him, and horrifyingly that's exactly the situation I find myself in. It's as if DH is a kind of lovely friend / co-parent / family member but I just can't find him sexy in any way, as if it would be incestuous.
I wish I had an answer. I wish someone on here did! I may order that Esther Perel book and see if it helps. I have to do something thou because like you I don't think my marriage is going to just jog along let alone thrive for the next 40 years if I don't address the fact that something has been lost.
Thank you for starting this thread, I hope it helps you because just seeing all of these replies and realising I'm not alone has really helped me already.

[TeeBee]

Yes, thank you confused. Same here for me - almost word for word. I've just booked a counsellor - something I've been putting off for years. The way you phrased everything will help me to voice exactly what I have been struggling with. Hell, I might just print of your thread and and it to the counsellor!! Sorry, I have no answers to help you - maybe I'll post if anything does clearer at counselling.

[ConfusedishSay]

Thanks to you too for posting, Scarborough Going back to a previous post of mine....do you wonder if it may just be that you are a person who will always end up like this after the 1st exciting years wear off. Nothing to do with the actual guy, just that you aren´t a person who can be with somebody forever and ever, death do you part, etc?
I´m just throwing this idea around...not necessarily that I believe it or anything...but I wonder if the ideals and expectations that society puts on us may not be suited to 100% of the population. ???
What do you think, gonetobed and others who feel this way?

[ConfusedishSay]

Hey, TeeBee ...everyone´s crawling out of the woodwork now!! Thanks. Please do report back with any astounding breakthroughs you may encounter along the way :) Think there´s a bunch of us who need a lot of help here!

[gonetobed]

For me its a defininate hitting 40 thing soon and kids growing older and thinking - I just have nothing in common with man anymore! I always wanted us to grow old together I just cant see it happening now. Not unless I spend the rest of my life being completely miserable. Its like now or never time to change my life

[ScarboroughFayre]

Confused, I do wonder that, I have had a history of 'going off' friends in the past and maybe I just need excitement to keep me interested.,. That makes me sound very shallow doesn't it?!
I've ordered the Esther Perel book, and its arrival might give me an opportunity to talk to DH about the situation, although I think I will be talking about my lack of libido, not that I find it hard to fancy him any more.
I think there is a lot in what someone wise ^^ up there said about fnding your partner less attractive when you share every part of your life with them and that life is mainly about domestic drudge, childcare and watching TV. We both definitely need to shake things up a bit, our DC are still young but we must make an effort to go out together and do adult stuff so that we have more to talk about than Top Gear
Got to go and do school run but will be back, I feel like I have finally found a support group!! Thank you!!

[VanderElsken]

This is such a common thing and it's becoming more and more common since women entered the workforce. Respect for women in a relationship can be what physical attraction is for a man, without is sex dries up.

The only thing I was pointing out is that melding together completely as a couple dissipates eroticism, uncertainty and that sense of 'other' that creates excitement. Communication can begin to take a form that slides towards contempt rather than honesty. If you find yourself saying 'You ALWAYS say this" or "For god's sake, why can't you ever.." you're beginning to talk to your partner in a way you wouldn't even to a colleague you have no affection for.

Often when a couple finds a huge problem (like an affair) comes up they communicate really honestly for the first time in a long time and respect comes back for a little while and so attraction.

And also frequently the blame for a lack of respect goes on the man (lazy, shiftless) in a couple when it takes two to tango and if you find yourself seething, waiting silently for him to 'do' something you wish he would do, then find he doesn't, then judge him for it and do it yourself, resentfully, thinking 'I have to do everything' that sort of passive-aggression is a way of continuing a cycle of lack of respect for your partner and maintaining control.

Of course sometimes in a relationship someone is just a bit of a weight dragging the other down, and there are definitely men out there who command much more respect and have huge amounts to offer, so sometimes it's right to leave a relationship that has this dynamic. But truthfully, men like that bring their own difficulties and can be distant or not as fun or even unfaithful, so you pick your flaws!

The issue of life partners is a knotty one, Confused, but it's not something you need to take refuge in, it's so general. For all time people have swapped partners, mated for life, been unfaithful, monogamy or love is a timeless clusterfuck. The real question is. is HE the right man for you. Did you marry the wrong person. Stop thinking about 50 years and think 5 years.

Most of the time:
Can you have fun?
Do you feel safe?
Do you respect him?
Can you be physically attracted to him?
Do you find him mostly easy to be around?

If there's a resounding no there, deep in you, and even by addressing it openly and effortfully it doesn't go away, you should feel content that you would be happier if you left.

[Charbon]

I think what VE has said about individuality is especially relevant and in this respect, I agree with Esther Perel. However what I don't agree with are Esther Perel's ethics about bringing flirtations and emotional affairs into the picture to revitalise a complacent and stale marriage, because that is an unethical use of other people and fails to consider their feelings too. I also found her grasp of sexual politics frustrating - and I think these have huge relevance to this thread. So read with caution. I might be back with more thoughts later, as this is an absorbing thread for anyone with an interest in male-female relationships.

[VanderElsken]

Yes, i'm painting with very broad strokes here and any sentence that starts with 'men can be like this' or 'women do this' is obviously flawed or personal view.

Infidelity always becomes a nightmare for everyone i think, as i said up the thread. I just think perel's rather french perspective and challenge to what lust really is can be enlightening to those who find themselves so bound to partners they grow to resent or tire of.

[thesnootyfox]

If dh asked me to marry him today (have been married for 17 years this year) the answer would be no I am afraid. He wouldn't want to marry me either.

[Dahlen]

Charbon, I'm glad you posted that as you've hit the nail on the head as to what I find troublesome with VE's otherwise excellent posts.

This bit: And also frequently the blame for a lack of respect goes on the man (lazy, shiftless) in a couple when it takes two to tango and if you find yourself seething, waiting silently for him to 'do' something you wish he would do, then find he doesn't, then judge him for it and do it yourself, resentfully, thinking 'I have to do everything' that sort of passive-aggression is a way of continuing a cycle of lack of respect for your partner and maintaining control. makes perfect sense until you think about gender politics.

It completely fails to take into account the question of why should a woman (though it can be reversed of course) have to take responsibility for reminding/telling her DH to pull his weight around the house so that she doesn't end up feeling 'I have to do everything'. One telling should be enough, but in many seemingly 'two to tango' couples in therapy it often turns out that arguing over housework is a common theme. So basically, the woman is saying what she wants but is ignored. Resorting to resentful martyrdom is often the only course of action left to a woman who doesn't want to row constantly about it or actually leave.

[Charbon]

Agreed Dahlen AND VE and FWIW I think both of you are pretty inspirational posters!

What struck me when reading through this thread today was how sexual politics are always relevant in couple-fit and especially in the process of remaining happy and fulfilled in a heterosexual monogamous relationship.

I was interested that the posters expressing most difficulty feeling desire for their partners seem to have very narrow definitions of male and female roles in relationships - and quite old-fashioned expectations about men's sexual behaviour. For example, Confused you mentioned your beliefs about 'men's needs' to have sex and seem to assume that as long as sex happens, you are meeting your partner's needs.

Whereas many men will confide that the act of sex itself is not the primary need; rather it's the need to feel desired and respected by their partners. Just having sex therefore wouldn't meet those men's needs at all - and men are not stupid. Just like women they can sense when a woman is having sex with them just for the sex itself.

Conversely, there is a common dynamic in many male-female relationships of the woman infantilising the man in response to his extremely manipulative attempts to avoid domestic work and childcare through learned cluelessness borne out of sheer laziness and a belief that the work is in the female domain. This leads to a mother-child dynamic which is the enemy of sexual attraction.

In relationships like these, I've noticed that the infidelity crisis can strike in either partner and sometimes both. The choice of OW/OM is also interesting. Often the OM is idealised as being decisive, sexually powerful and 'masterful' instead of a less lust-fuelled assessment of being arrogant, objectifying and controlling. And the OW is idealised as being adoring, sexually responsive and respectful, instead of the more honest judgement that she is compliant, submissive and manipulative.

While a crisis of loss often recalibrates the views a couple has of eachother and causes them to re-define roles and expectations, it is always better to either work on this within the relationship, introducing honest and heartfelt communication - or to part and re-evaluate. An infidelity crisis will often have the same effect - as long as there is honesty, truth and no secrets held. But it is an enormously high price to pay in terms of damage caused to a couple and third parties, so is best avoided at all costs.

I'd really recommend challenging some long-held beliefs about what men/women want and need in relationships and how much that has been defined by the patriarchical constructs we have all been socialised to accept.

[ScarboroughFayre]

This is all so horribly true. But how do I tell my DH "darling the reason I can't bring myself to fancy you is the fact that when I ask you to put the bins out you roll your eyes like a teenager and I feel like a nagging mother?"

[BlueSkybytheSea]

Another one here sadly reading with much interest as in very much the same position. Would love to say more but not got enough time right now as if I start I could go on forever! Will come back though. So much interesting advice and thoughts.
With regards to being sexually attracted to your DH I do beleive its impossible to compare DH's with an exciting, sexually charged, un-consumated flirtation, but yeas, very difficult to move forwards once you have experienced just that. I am working on trying to see that side of things with DH as an expression of love for him and opening up the love between us again rather than shutting him out as I do still love him so much and would so love to see us in a better place. Just something I'm trying.
Will keep reading and be back next week.

[ScarboroughFayre]

Bluesky I'm the same, I do love my DH very much and looking at Charbon's list, yes most of the time I do have fun with him, like him, respect him and always feel safe with hi. It's just that its turned from sexual attraction to feeling like he's family, and so non-sexual. When I think about it the rot started to set in literally as soon as we moved in together 11 years ago - going from being equal partners each with our own place and own lives, to being co-habitant partners. It was made worse by the fact that on the day that we moved on, he was involved in an accident and so I had to look after him, instead of us shagging all over the shop and 'christening' our new place I became a nurse maid. He was fine within a few weeks but I think that set a horrible precedent that has just got worse and worse since having children.
It's very interesting about the feminist slant on this and the way that our gender roles play a part, I think it is very relevant. I know that I need to get back to work for my own sanity and self esteem (currently SAHM) and that how I feel about myself will have a part to pay in this. But I clearly need to talk to him about his role and me needing to respect him more, and how for that to happen I need to NOT feel like his mother. Hmm. Not sure how to go about that conversation without it turning into a row / tears.
Again, all advice gratefully received!

[ScarboroughFayre]

Aargh so many typos sorry!

[rockinastocking]

About eight years ago I felt like you, OP.

Met someone else. Shocked me to my core. Nothing happened, only knew him for three days, but I knew I couldn't carry on as things were.

Begged husband for counselling, had therapy. Was on beta blockers.

Nothing improved, ate my heart out for a few more years, met another 'someone else'.

We separated. Am now with the second 'someone else' and very happy. I now have what was missing.

But, as someone up thread said, I wish I'd done it sooner. A lot of hurt, a lot of wasted time.

[CheerfulYank]

I got engaged at a fairly young age for these days (think I was 22) but I was pretty clear-headed about it all.

I knew it required sacrifice but decided it was worth it. It still is. :) I knew I would miss the excitement of meeting new men, "does he fancy me, is he going to kiss me", that sort of thing. And sometimes I do. But I just really wanted a strong unit, a partner to lean on and make a life with, and I knew what I had to give up to have it.

I love DH. He's a great dad, he makes me laugh, I'm interested in the things he has to say. I don't shiver when he touches my neck anymore, but I still like him enough to have sex with every few days. :)

We have a life together, a house, children, in laws, etc. Sure, I miss the excitement sometimes, but I'm not willing to devastate my best friend and give up everything I have for it.

[amamini]

'sometimes we need to step back at how much we have and appreciate it. It is far too easy to allow yourself to be dissatisfied, but the alternative is not much fun. Marriage can be tedious but Divorce is hell'

Just reading other threads in the last few days for the first time, that show so brutally how womans and childrens lives are devastated by relationships breaking down, due so often it seems by selfishness and boredom. Perhaps these might answer questions of whether to stay or go?

Go if you're in a hateful violent unheathly life threatening marriage, but so often that is not what it is about.

I had been with my partner/husband for 28 years, and he walked away without any discussions.

I believe what may have felt important enough for people not to stay or to work at, very soon after a few years become shallow and unimportant. Many men think, new wife new life..but ultimately if one is not happy with ones self, that brick wall of dissatisfation will come back again, but one may well have lost, never to be replaced time with children, true relationships with partners family and friends..not to mention careers, homes and money...in the end only Lawyers are the winners in so many broken marriages...as Society picks up the tab.

[Charbon]

"But how do I tell my DH "darling the reason I can't bring myself to fancy you is the fact that when I ask you to put the bins out you roll your eyes like a teenager and I feel like a nagging mother?"

You tell him by being honest, with some tact thrown in. Most men would understand that the mothering role is not one that is sexualised and that a woman who is performing that role in her romantic relationship is unlikely to feel sexual attraction and desire for her partner. Although I'm saying that many men would understand the logic of that, I've often noticed it's been a lightbulb moment of revelation when their partner explains this to them. In the same way as I've noticed similar jaw-dropping moments when men have confided that they know when their partners are fantasising during sex or faking sexual desire - and how being treated with disrespect or contempt has killed their own desire for intimacy and involvement, if not sex itself.

[Kione]

I feel exactly like you OP, I cant write much now, but marking my spot. All I can add is that I am trying my best to rekindle everything, but it is just not easy

[Charbon]

Something else I've noticed as a link is how an affair of any kind or an infatuation with someone else, renders the familiar partner to be sexually undesirable and unattractive. It is almost impossible to recapture sexual desire for someone who has been cuckolded, without some honesty about the secret relationship. Again, there are differences noted here according to how men and women are socialised about sex. So whereas a man might find no difficulty retaining desire for his partner after his affair has been discovered, a woman found out in an affair will often respond very differently.