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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

huge moral dilemma re asking father of baby to leave us be, even though he was aggressive to me

15 replies

missperelman · 27/01/2013 19:50

hello , is it ok if i ask some advice? i am a single parent with an 11 month old daughter. her father and i were very, very in love, then when i fell pregnant, all hell broke loose. he has 3 daughters from when he was in his early 20s. he is mid 40s now. i am 37. two of his daughters were aggressive to me, one of them posted 2 separate death threats while i was 5 months pregnant, and sent a number of other threatening messages. i was blamed for ruining a family, even though my baby's father had split from their mother 5 years before i even met him. our baby wasn't planned, but neither was she unplanned. we talked about it and wondered about it, and were never careful with contraception. but it wasn't a trick, i always said i had no contraception and that we should be careful but i still got blamed for tricking him. i think i still am blamed. anyway, so many horrible things happened including me ending up in a & e twice while pregnant, with panic attacks. i still suffer from extreme anxiety and haven't been able to work for 2 years. i have been brought quite low really although make a lovely, stimulating calm life for my daughter. i am just a bit humiliated that i am on benefits but don't intend to be for much longer.
when my baby was born, they all descended on me, and kept trying to take the baby. i still received angry behaviour from the one daughter, and ambivalent behaviour from the others, and from the mother (of my ex-partner). they also always made barbed comments about my breastfeeding and bout how i was bringing the baby up (naturally, calmly and quietly!). i moved away - but not far enough - and since the baby was 3 months old, i haven't been able to allow him to take the baby. i am breastfeeding on demand so it is physically impossible anyway. but also i don't trust them all. he tries to be nice but doesn't officially support me at all. just leaves some money in my tin and buys flashy presents. he is very emotional about the baby, and kind to her and i don't doubt that he loves her; but love, unfortunately for him, is merely an abstraction, isn't it, without genuine support. we don't really speak on his weekly visits. we just pretend to be ok. i know he can't like me for keeping the baby from his family. but, not only for the behaviour they displayed during my pregnancy, i really really don't want my baby influenced by them. they are covered in tattoos, smoke, act aggressively, always seem to be in fights etc. awful, objectively, not just because i think so. everyone does. he didn't really bring them up, it turns out, the 'nanny', his mother, did. so that is where the problem lays. jealousy that my daughter would have a proper father. so he is not offering anything really. he doesn't want to set up home with us, he has never said 'let's try it again', or anything. but he expects to see her a lot. i have managed to get it down to a few hours a week. even this is too much for me. i shake on the hours running up to the visit. i want to scream at him all the time but just bite my tongue. the baby seems a bit confused as to who he is, and she definitely picks up on my anxiety. i would never shout in front of the baby; or at all. i now have no patience with him, no time for him. i cannot bear the thought of him taking the baby away even for an hour, to see his mum, who is now housebound. and ill. largely because the death-threat daughter now lives there. she's never been without me and would scream in confusion. but also because she herself - the grandmother - totally ignored me on the day of the birth, and took the baby from me. i just lay on the bed crying while they were all shouting around me.
my question is: i feel guilty enough keeping the baby from them (his younger daughter is actually ok, and rather confused as to why she doesn't get to see their half sister) even though they ignored and/or were hostile to me. but i can't let some of them see her as the others who i fear, will insist on seeing her too. they are all very tribal and very very insular. i am a private person who wants to maintain absolute calm for my daughter, in a very tough area, with very little money, but now i would like to ask him to leave us get on. i just can't focus properly when so anxious. i have written him a letter and edited it so many times. it is in my bag ready to post but i keep stalling. if i could just get on, i would feel better. but i fear my daughter will one day turn against me for this decision to cut her father out. i also fear a terrible response from his side. i have already changed a phone number i had for 20 years to get away from their texts. i think of myself as quite brave, but to be honest, they scare me. but to say that to him about his tribe of children, would kill him. he thinks they are elegant princesses. should i ask him to leave us get on and say the baby can visit him when she's of age? very very worried i am doing the wrong thing but i just feel so hurt still but also so completely certain they will only hinder my child. x thankyou x

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 27/01/2013 20:11

Please contact Womens Aid about what's going on with regard to your child and your ex partner. 0808 2000 247. Please also call the police if the threats and intimidation you are getting from his family carry on. Keep evidence to show them... texts, e-mails, letters, anything... and report everything that happens. They are your protection as long as you tell them what is going on.

Your daughter will never turn against you for protecting her from this terrible man and his horrible family. Cut contact, tell him to stop visiting and, if he ignores you, call the police.

missperelman · 27/01/2013 20:19

thankyou for your advice. there hasn't been anything aggressive for so long. as soon as they realised they would want to see my lovely and loving child, they all tried to be nice. but to take the baby and not even invite me along, just shows that they all hate me. i can't let her go to people who hate me! if i am honest with her, she won't turn against me will she? my next fear is that by being honest, she has to know that she wasn't wanted by a father though. but that is the next stage. thankyou. L

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 27/01/2013 20:34

She'll never turn against you, especially if you're honest. Your job as her mother is to protect her from harm. Not to put her in the path of people who are capable of such hateful behaviour.

I am a lone parent to a DS and we are fiercely loyal to each other. If someone treats me with disrespect, I don't care who they are, they don't get to interact with him.... and vice versa.

missperelman · 27/01/2013 21:27

what is a DS? sorry i am not used to the acronyms on forums! i am very glad to hear this attitude. i do stand up for my baby all the time, and when he is around, i don't roll over - he is aware of what i like and dislike for the baby - but when i see the father, i feel crushed by something, and silenced, especially in terms of him taking her to his mum. i mumble 'ok, soon', or similar. when what i mean is 'no f* off'. men don't usually silence me. it is a mix of fear (not that he will be physically violent, just that he will explode with grief masked as anger), and also empathy. to be fair to him, he is in a double bind because his awful daughter (the death threat daughter) is such an embattled, unhappy soul. the world is against her, in her mind, and despite her many privileges, and constant attention, she is just very rude and abusive to him, and guilt trips him constantly. she also wants money always, for doing nothing. she's paid - in his business - to sit around moaning, and it brings him to the brink of bankruptcy constantly. they all do. he pays for 6 mobiles, 6 vehicles, insurance everything. including the parents and the ex wife who has never worked and is now mid 50s. i think the one daughter i mention may have threatened to kill herself when she found out i was pregnant even tho she is mid twenties - but no one told me anything. so i try to think how awful it was for them. and this holds me back saying, i don't want anything to do with all of you. but i have to, and i will. thankyou for emboldening me. any more info or details about how you promote confidence in your child, - do they ask why there is no father? would be so helpful. many thanks x L

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 28/01/2013 08:18

DS = Son

"so i try to think how awful it was for them"

What exactly was awful for them? Grown women (late teens, early twenties?) who should be making independent lives of their own should not be reacting like spoilt toddlers when they hear about their father's new partner or child. It doesn't matter if they are embattled and unhappy people. Gives no-one the right to make death threats. And what the hell is 'grief masked as anger'?... If his children are rude and abusive and he is rude and abusive then is that any surprise really? The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

So you have to keep your particular apple as far away from this very poisonous tree as you possibly can. You first promote confidence in your child by demonstrating to them that they are the most important person to you. 'The most beloved' as I heard Aung Sang Suu Kyi say on the radio yesterday. That's all children really need... to be loved and encouraged. You next promote confidence by showing your child that you do not entertain bullying .... whether that's from partners, family, friends, employers or strangers in the street. When they ask about their father, tell them the age appropriate truth.

In the meantime, make sure your ex is paying towards the upkeep of your child and do talk to a solicitor about the possibility of supervised access. Not in your home where you can feel afraid, not in his horrible family's home where they can influence her, but at a neutral location.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 28/01/2013 08:18

" don't want anything to do with all of you. but i have to, and i will. "

You do not and you shouldn't.

missperelman · 28/01/2013 08:51

thankyou. i can turn my phone that i reserve for him on now. and just say no to meeting. when i said "i have to, and i will", that was in reference to saying goodbye.
i don't want any supervised meetings. i always think my daughter deserves more than that.
is it ok to ask for £ support and no contact? i was not going to ask for anything. i have managed so far!
thankyou

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 28/01/2013 09:02

I can understand that pride means you want to be independent but my view about maintenance is that it is not for you it is for your daughter. He is as financially responsible for her as he is for the Ugly Sisters with their seven mobile phones or whatever it is they have. Even if you put the money into an account and give it to her when she's 21, she's entitled to it. Also, when she asks about her Dad you can say - honestly - that he may not have been part of her life but at least he contributed.

'No contact' is why you need to talk to a solicitor. If we're talking about a relatively wealthy man he may not accept no contact and try to fight you for a share in the parenting. So you need to be very sure of your ground. Some solicitors specialising in Family Law will offer a free half-hour consultation. I would strongly recommend that you keep her away from your ex and his family for now.... set the precedent that he has no involvement in her care.

missperelman · 28/01/2013 09:05

i will, thankyou. luckily for me, he wouldn't dare fight my decision. he has or at least had, too many things going on that would ruin him, if publicised etc. i also have screen grabs and saved messages of the abuse. plus the specialised team of midwives i was under have a whole file cataloguing what happened. i am certain he won't legally challenge. x

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 28/01/2013 09:11

Then pursue him for maintenance through the CSA (this doesn't affect your benefits incidentally), keep yourself entirely separate from him and his family - geographically if you can relocate - and raise your daughter independently in that calm, happy environment you mentioned earlier.

missperelman · 28/01/2013 09:14

can i just doubly confirm though, do you think it is acceptable to ask for support and insist on no contact? my extremely sensible intelligent older friend said that that would just be impossible. i would always be feeling somehow beholden. better to totally cut contact including money into a bank account? i have plans to turn my life around and make proper money again and very soon. and i live very well on very little money anyway. people are also very kind to us. x

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missperelman · 28/01/2013 09:15

ah, you answered my question, as i sent that. thankyou times 1000 for your help. i'd realised i hadn't actually been able to ask anyone who was a lone parent about this. then mumsnet dawned on me! x

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 28/01/2013 09:19

Yes it is entirely acceptable. People do it all the time. Of course, in an ideal world where ex-partners are nice human beings, parenting would be shared, everyone would stay friends and the maintenance payments & access would be agreed outside of courts and government agencies. But in the real world where you have an abusive ex partner ... all he can bring to positive to your child's life is money. And never knock that. It does not make you beholden or obliged to him in any way. It does not give him any rights. It could be argued however that, if he has money, what is 'morally wrong' is to expect the state or kind poeple to pick up the tab and let a wealthy man off without paying a penny.....

trustissues75 · 28/01/2013 11:15

I agree with Cogito. Your little one is entitled to support from both parents - and if that is merely financial that's perfectly acceptable. Think of it as standing up for what's best for your baby - and don't for a second let anyone use shame and blame (eg you're a money-grubber etc) coerce you into backing out. If he and his family are an emotional/psychological/physical (any combination of the above) danger to your baby then it is perfectly acceptable to go no contact and still accept child maintenance and you shouldn't feel bad about it.

missperelman · 28/01/2013 11:28

wow. in a way it is a radical proposal for my mind to accept. but it is clearly right. she'll grow up poor without it, until i can get back on track anyway x

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