What makes men decide to get married?

[JessieMcJessie]

Any men out there who can speak from experience? Or women whose husbands have explained it to them? What is the trigger between being in love and wanting/hoping it will last forever? I am fed up waiting, I am 100% sure he loves me and can't get enough of me, I make sure he knows I feel the same, we're in our thirties and it's been nearly 2 years.... What can I do to (subtly) tip him over the edge? And please don't say I should ask him, that may work for some people but not for us.

Thanks Bad Lad. I presume you missed out an "isn't" in your last sentence ! Fair point, but do you think that maybe 2 years (actually it's 22 months) is perhaps still a bit early for him to have made up his mind, or should I assume that if he hasn't asked by now he'll never feel that excited about me?

Have you clarified yet why you can't just ask him?

TBH you sound like you're not confident of his love. Why would seeing you more make him like you more? That might sound harsh but I just mean, either he does or he doesn't like you enough to settle down with you, marriage or no marriage.

DO NOT MOVE IN WITH HIM IF YOU WANT TO GET MARRIED!

I'm serious. It's a total step away from marriage. You'll lose any bargaining power (if you needed any), all your freedom, all your mystery and charm... He'll smell your poos, hear your snores, overhear every phone conversation you have... Meanwhile you'll feel like you are auditioning every day to qualify for an "upgrade" to wife status. Very stressful.

It's not a sign of commitment to live together - it's just something men do because it is more convenient than living separately.

Do read The Rules. Not because it'll teach you tactics to "get your man", but because it'll spell out - far more brutally than anyone in your life would ever dare - that men marry women when they love them and can't bear the idea of life without them. Not because the woman has cooked them a million breakfasts, shagged them every night, been nice to their friends and waited patiently.

Listen to the voice in your head that is screaming at you: "after 22 months, my boyfriend knows whether or not we'll ever get married."

He knows. He already knows. The fact that he has dodged all your direct questions about it is telling you, he doesn't want to marry you but is scared to tell you that because he thinks you'd chuck him. (Because that's what a woman with self-esteem would do.)

Instead, he is offering you "living together" which basically means he gets 24/7 access to you and loads of sex and company and food, and gives you the false impression of forward-motion. It's NOT forward-motion, it's just a side-step.

You know this! Don't come here to be told it! You're 39, you know how relationships generally work by now. You know the answers but you're scared you won't meet anyone else if you let this one go.

You're in a great position right now. Just say, "I've thought about this and I'm sorry to change my mind but I just don't feel comfortable living together without marriage. It's just not something that'd make me happy.

"I have had a wonderful 22 months with you, but when I look into my future, I have always seen myself married. You make me very very happy, but if we are not at the marriage stage yet, I can't give this relationship any more of my time. I love you and I will miss you, but marriage is something that I need."

Then you get the HELL out if there and don't contact him again until he turns up with a diamond. This is not pressuring him or giving him an ultimatum - it's just being brave and courageous and sticking up for yourself. He'd respect you for that. And so would I.

AnuvvaMuvva Fri 25-Jan-13 16:48:51

DO NOT MOVE IN WITH HIM IF YOU WANT TO GET MARRIED!

Errr... bollocks, largely.
I don't know anyone who has got married without living with their partner in the last 20 years.

I'm serious. It's a total step away from marriage. You'll lose any bargaining power (if you needed any)

RED FLAG - if you need bargaining power to "get him to marry you" you shouldn't be marrying him anyway!

all your freedom

If you do, dump him.

all your mystery and charm... He'll smell your poos, hear your snores, overhear every phone conversation you have... Meanwhile you'll feel like you are auditioning every day to qualify for an "upgrade" to wife status. Very stressful

Surely he should be hoping you'll upgrade him to husband and not dump his sorry ass.

It's not a sign of commitment to live together - it's just something men do because it is more convenient than living separately.

and it's not something women do for that very reason? I've lived with girlfriends when we both know we're not going to marry.

Do read The Rules. Not because it'll teach you tactics to "get your man", but because it'll spell out - far more brutally than anyone in your life would ever dare - that men marry women when they love them and can't bear the idea of life without them. Not because the woman has cooked them a million breakfasts, shagged them every night, been nice to their friends and waited patiently.

or read The Rules if you want to learn a very cynical approach, which will encourage any sensible bloke to dump you as a gamesplayer/

I agree that this is a junction that perhaps you should use to see where the land really lies. In my case DH got a job some distance away ( we were already living together) but he started going on about getting himself a flat during the week and coming back at weekends. I thought that was pointless and basically said if we could actually commit I would move with him, but wasn't going to just drift on.

I married my wife because I loved & wanted to spend my life with her,have children & enjoy family life. I may have been driven by my own childhood experiences, My father died when I was a youngster ,& it was so hard & painful, growing up . I always wanted to be there for my wife & future children. Unfortunately it does not have the ending I wanted, I have the children & grandchildren, but my wife wanted a life elsewhere .

IGNORE the poster who said a man won't marry you if he's smelled your poos!
Better to really know each other than build a marriage in a facade I say. Everyone I know who has married in the last ten years lived together first for a couple of years.

You respect his view that your proposal would emasculate him?

What does 'emasculation' even mean?

Doesn't sound like an equal partnership at all.

It's great that you treated an unmarried long term relationship as utterly solid commitment, bit how did you reassure your DP about that?

A marriage is a legal contract. It is no guarantee of commitment or fidelity.

A commitment is something you believe in and feel in your heart and mind. It does not suddenly happen because you sign a piece of paper. It cannot be forced or faked.

A solid commitment is based on mutual love, trust, friendship, compatability, communication, honesty and all those other things which are important in a relationship.

The only real difference between marriage and living together (religious beliefs aside) is mostly the financial implications.

I would also like to know why you feel you couldn't ask him? Is it some romantic notion or are you afraid he would say no?

Because he would feel 'emasculated' apparently. Which is worthy of respect. Hmm.

Oh, sorry I missed the 'emasculate' bit.

If that's what he really believes then don't marry him. He is not treating you as an equal in this partnershp and that's always a very bad sign.

Two years probably isn't long enough for him to have shown his true colours but something like that is a big red flag.

In my experience, men know very early on. Very early on.

I think women know very early on and so do men. Sme people get married as they have children/ want them and they feel more secure in a legal binding relationship. This is up to the couple.

Maybe as you and he ( at the moment) don't want dc so be cant see why you would marry and tie himself to you.

But he doesn't want to get married does he, he wants to move in with you and carry on as before. You have told him you want to get married, he doesn't want to talk about it apart from to say he is "happy now" which would suggest he sees no need to change.

How does discussing the future emasculate him, unless you just focus on discussing the big proposal and wedding day and not your life after which is the important thing? still not emasculating though!

As you earn more than him, are older than him and want to get married to him I suggest you say that you are in the relationship with a view to engagement after 3-6 months and marriage after that within a time frame. don't spend all you pr money doing up his place and hold onto yours. Don't rent it out just yet.

I hope you don't mind, but how much younger than you is he and does he have a good career?

If he wanted to marry you he would have proposed by now not asked you to live together.

What do you expect to get out of being married that you don't already have now?

He's 4.5 years younger Lavenderhoney. He has an excellent career and when he's 39 he's almost certainly going to be earning more than I am at the moment, I'm just ahead through working for 4 years longer. We have similar amounts of disposable cash and I don't bankroll him, in fact he treats me often. The only reason I mentioned that I earned more than him was to emphasise that I am not hung up on marriage for financial reasons.

Neither of us own/occupy as we are working outside the UK, so no inequalities about one living in the other's place, we're just terminating individual leases and renting a place together.

To be clear, I haven't told him I want to get married. However I have always been clear that I believe in marriage (we both have happily-married parents) and am very happy for friends who get engaged. So I would have thought that it would go without saying that marriage was where I would want a serious relationship to be heading.

I brought up the subject of kids because I thought it only fair to make sure he knew that time was tight because of my age. Not all men are aware of this. However the way I put it was that I had no strong feelings one way or the other (true) so it was his decision. Maybe his "tending towards not wanting any" was code for "I'm not going to be with you by the time I do but I am not ready to tell you that yet."

Going back to my belief that the woman proposing is emasculating, I mean this in the sense that it's as traditional (to us) for the man to propose as it is for him to lead in a ballroom dance or carry the heavy bags in from the car. This is particularly important in our scenario where he is younger and earns less.

It sounds as though he is already comitted to you, he has asked you to move in!-That is a big step in itself

I think you are over-anaylizing what marriage means, after all it is just a piece of paper. It won't stop him running off, cheating, etc as you can be divorced as easily as you are married.

You need to sit down and have a frank discussion with him or failing that propose yourself as marriage means so much to you.

You say he 'doesn't know' about having children, you are 39 i think you need to put your feelings first on this part. You say you are on the fence?, do you are don't you want kids? Because if the answer is yes tie isn't on your side and you may need to go in search of a man that wants the same things as even if you marry this guy, it sounds as though he is quite clear on his non-commitel to wanting children.

You need to find out now whether you both want the same things.

Marriage is not just a piece of paper!!.

Think your man jessie wants to live with you and that's it; that is what he is offering you. He does not want to take the plunge with you by getting married because he is ambivalent about this as well as having children (which he does not want by you). I would agree with other comments made to the effect that you have sold yourself short.

You are his "she will do" partner for now until somebody else younger comes along. He will benefit far more from you moving in with him; he'll get you doing perhaps more than your fair share of chores soon enough. Also cohabitation splits can be horribly messy and complicated.

Pumpkin I am very sure that I am not suppressing my own desire for children. If they were something he wanted I'd gladly embark on the adventure with him. If he doesn't want to have any then I'd rather stay with him and not have any than go off to find a man who does. If I were single I would not be going down the sperm donor path.

I disagree Attilla. Marriage is just a piece of paper.

It's the eixsting relationship between a couple prior to marriage which makes it special, real, genuine, committed, etc. If you don't already have that, you won't gain it by marrying.

Almost any two consenting adults can and do marry for all sorts of legal, religious and financial reasons. But for love? Marriage is not necessary for a successful, loving, faithful relationship. It's traditional but does not make anyone more committed than they already are in their heart and mind, imo.

What, essentially, is different after marriage? Why would a person you love and trust enough to marry be more faithful or more committed one day than they were the day before, because of a ceremony?

My DH and I were together for 5 years before we got engaged. I got a bit upset when my best friend got engaged to her boyfriend of 9 months, and let DH know I was upset. 3 months later he proposed. Still together and happy 10 years later (and my best friend is too!). We were both in our 20s at the time.

As it means as much as it does to you, you should definitely tell him you want to get married.

If he is ever going to do it, then he will certainly have considered the prospect by now.

OP, I think if you're in really solid relationship, being married or not doesn't make a difference to you as individuals. It makes a difference on a social and legal level, and I think that is very important too.

DH and I lived together and even had our first child before getting married. The relationship didn't change one bit, the problems that we had, we continued having, the happiness that we had, we continued having.

However, if you're going to be taking such a high level of commitment with another person, you might as well have the law behind you to back you up.

In the case of separation, or death, women tend to be very unprotected by the law if they're not married.

We live in a very patriarchal society, and not matter how liberal we are, we have to operate within their laws, otherwise we will lose out badly, and our children too.

You should be able to talk about your partner about this without feeling embarassed.