Can a "good guy" ever cheat on his wife?

[confusionoftheillusion]

I met a guy last summer and became friends. Had a drunken kiss in November. Since then have been meeting once/twice a week.

Both married and recently have started to talk in detail about the problems we both have at home. He is talking about wanting to be with me, as in leave his wife and be with me together as a couple. I think he is wonderful in so many ways but also think that if he is that comfortable cheating on his wife he must be a bit of a dick. We haven't slept together but that is due to me being pretty upfront about the fact I wouldn't do that. I am also aware that me cheating on my husband makes me a not great person either.

As always the situations either side are not quite as straightforward as we would like.

I feel an awful lot for this man. However I am so conscious that we are having an affair so it's not the real world. How would I ever know if it would work in the real world? And is there ever a time when a 'decent' man has an affair? I feel that he is a "good guy" but then logically I think that he can't be as he is lying to his wife.

I can't see any point to you going to see a counsellor together if you aren't going to disclose this. Why not just go on your own? I went to marriage counselling on my own! Certainly made me look at things in a new light and made me a stronger person.

Seeing a counsellor on your own would help you work through all of these feelings and untangle it all for you. Then with a clear head you can make decisions.

I did think that cath but she said they prefer to see couples together. I did say that there were some things I didn't think I would disclose and that I wasn't Sure I even wanted to save the marriage but she said for couples that was the best way - maybe I should call and speak to someone else...

Find someone else. I'm not sure in a case with DV that joint counselling is the best idea.

Get your own head straight then work out how or if to save your marriage.

I'm not Relate's greatest fan to be honest and in any case, I genuinely don't advise couples counselling when one of the parties has had/is having a secret affair. It's not fair on the person in the couple who's left in the dark and it's not fair on the therapist.

While having an affair might not have relevance to the marriage (in that the marriage didn't cause the affair) once it's happened, it will always have relevance to the future relationship.

I'd recommend you see someone on your own for now. If you're going to stick to no contact, you'll need some support while that's going on and I suspect you'll be unable to evaluate your marriage properly until that period of grief and loss is over.

I'd recommend you speak to your husband though about your ambivalence regarding the marriage because at the moment he appears to be unsighted and in fairness, needs to know something about the turmoil that exists. This is advised with the caveat that if you fear any future violence, postpone that conversation. I don't get the sense that this is likely however - and on the other active thread I thought was yours, the OP referenced a one-off episode of violence that was related to a meds. clash - which has now been resolved.

I always think in the interests of fairness and in non-abusive marriages, the other partner needs to be given the opportunity to rescue his marriage and work on the problems within it. If these are problems that pre-existed your affair, they will be in the open domain but he might not realise how imperilled his marriage and your attachment to him is. I think he needs to know this at least.

Me and dh have talked. I am going to go talk to someone to try and make sense of it all. I haven't told him about the OM but told him about my ambivalence and how I've felt differently since the violence. I felt awful not sharing my side of the weaknesses in the marriage. But I know it would not be repairable if I did. So maybe that means I want to repair it. We'll see.

I texted OM and said "I can't meet up in a month. It has to be no contact. its the only way for both of us to build the lives we want. Please respect this and don't respond to this message". He hasn't responded which I guess is what I want. Though of course it's kinda crushing.

Dh was pretty ambivalent about it all actually. Didn't seem hugely bothered but maybe that says a lot too

Or maybe you want him to be ambivalent? OM has done exactly as you asked but I get how hurtful that must be. He needs to go away and sort out his life too while you do the same. Focus on what you have in front of you now, this needs all your emotional energy.

I had, I guess, an exit affair with my DP who I'm now intending to marry. We fessed up incredibly quickly (within days of kissing and before anything sexual). I was confused, young and I behaved like an ass.

Current DP saw this, wanted to wait until I had disentangled myself and made no promises he couldn't keep. I genuinely wouldn't want to inflict that on anyone ever again, nor I think would DP. We waited a long time to plan marriage, I think in part as a result. But yes, it is possible to have an exit affair that lasts. Not likely i suspect, but possible.

We had no joint assets, no kids, which I think makes things a lot more straightforward. Also only a few years together, so much easier to step back than a 20yr marriage. I was not an OW for him, so yes I trust him - I would probably struggle otherwise because I am a much less forgiving person than DP.

To be honest OP. your situation sounds so much more complex. OM is almost incidental. You've not said he's the love of your life and if not (or if either of you is unsure) I really would urge you to step back and deal with the crap at home. As others have said, the stats aren't with your OM choosing you and moving off into the sunset together. Even if he did, you'd have DC and 2 angry, betrayed exDPs to deal with. It won't be an easy road.

Op neither of you are nice people and if you were you would do the decent thing. So many people stand to get hurt here except for you and him, ironically the only people to be doing anything wrong.
If your marriage isn't working, do something about it, either work it out with your dh or divorce. Stop being so selfish and think of the people that matter, your family.

OP. Have only just read about the dv, sorry for being so blunt. FWIW I agree with others that you need time and to step back and assess what is best.
Irrespective of this OM though, if your marriage is over you need to take action before getting too involved with OM.

potatoprints - you don't have to apologise for being blunt because of the dv. It doesn't excuse anything and what you said in your first post is still right.

So I'm onto no contact now. Not able to bring myself to delete his number. Keep telling myself lots of things:

1. As a poster on here said, it's a constant process to be a good person.i fucked up badly but I am now trying to put it right.
2. My h does not deserve to be betrayed so I need to focus on that relationship first.
3. I am hurting but I haven't had my heart broken. ( I know this is my fault btw)
4. If its meant to be, it will happen.
5. I don't want to be the reason a family (his) breaks up. I believe his marriage is pretty awful (if he's been tellinge the truth) but if he leaves I want him to do it of his own accord. Ditto with me.
6. I am going to make the choice every day to DO THE RIGHT THING from now on.

Anyone else have any advice on how to cope with the inevitable desire to email/call/text over the coming days and weeks?

Only one sure-fire way OP - delete the number. The fact that you haven't is quite telling.

Just feels so hard to delete his number when one week ago we were talking about the future and the fact he blurted out he'd like to have kids with me and could really see us being together. I've turned into a total sap over this man. I just want to be with him. The problem is I know he would carry on the EA but I can't. I offered him no strings sex once a week (as per a previous posters suggestion) and he turned me down and was the pretty offended, till I explained why I'd said that. Clearly I couldn't and wouldn't have done that but it was reassuring to know he wouldn't either.

Suppose it's one of those cases where you just have to trust that what will be will be.

Sounds like you and your current partner relationship is dead in the water. All this talk about Relate, counselling etc is just delaying the inevitable and wasting everybody's time. Do you really need a third party to tell you that you've had your head turned? That said, the other bloke doesn't sound 100 pc right either - if he was, you wouldn't be so in two minds.

I'm not in two minds about OM. The thing that's stopping me with him is that he is married and though he says he wants out of his marriage I know he doesn't want to leave his kids. And he hasnt made a decision yet about what he is going to do. So I don't want to put pressure on him to 'choose' as I don't think that is right.

I don't think h and I will go to relate. I need to talk to someone about it though and I dont have anyone in RL. My gut tells me h and I will not be able to get past this though

Well of course the OM acted all offended when you offered no-strings sex. That's what he was supposed to do wasn't he?

It might help if you realised how gender scripts work in affairs, like roles in a drama.

His role is to play the sensitive, caring soul who listens to your every word and for whom sex is lower down the motivational order than love and deep conversations where you connect at a deep level. Whereas your role is to give him respect and value, placing sex and his sexual worth high up in the motivational order. Put simply, in affairs what you're often dealing with are sexual stereotypes and caricatures and your role is to play the antithesis of the caricature depicted of the other's spouse.

His additional role is to claim that he is staying in his marriage because of his children, because that reinforces his 'caring father' credentials. But the real truth is that especially these days, no man has to 'lose' his children on divorce any more than a woman does. And if he thought that divorce was going to result in him losing his children, why would he risk an affair and being thrown out?

You're not serious about this if you haven't deleted his number.

I'm interested in your husband's ambivalence though. I'm sure he must have sensed your distance since the summer, so I wonder whether some self-preservation has kicked in and the gap between you has been getting wider? If in the past he would have had the motivation to fight for his marriage, I wonder why he lacks that now? As another poster said, we can engender ambivalence sometimes if that's what we want to achieve. I'd be very interested in your words, tone and body language during that conversation.

Can I emphasise what I said above - do what you need to do in your marriage regardless of the OM. He must do the same.

My actions and my exit affair are not honourable I know. But, TBH, without the knowledge that just maybe things might work out with the OM, and without his support through a shitty time, I just don't know if I would have the strength to go through with it. Even if things don't work out, he will have helped me get throguh this and ending my marriage is something I really need to do.

I don't think you need to delete the number but you do need to try to refrain from contact. If you are wanting to work on your marriage then definitely delete. You also musn't mess the OM around - men do have feeling too and his may well be honourable. It is easy (on reading many of the responses above) to assume that the OM is just after one thing. I don't think that it is like that. Have you ever discussed his feelings towards his wife? He shouldn't leave her for you, but if he is unhappy leave her anyway. The former puts too much pressure and is a bad place to start.

Whatever you decide you have a tough road ahead and I wish you all the best for it. I have been living with DH with my heart with the OM for 4 months now and it is killing me. The more time has passed the more I have fallen for him, I feel I will explode at the moment. I have found no excitement in the duplicity and secrecy and hated that aspect. Yes there is teh excitement of falling in love with someone and feeling that they are falling in love with you. The moment the affair started there was no pretence of a relationship with DH although we had to go through the motions of a family holiday etc for the sake of the kids. FWIW we haven't had sex for two years. He moves out in two days time. He knows nothing about the OM but has been very suspicious - mainly due to the fact I have had the strength to go throguh with this rather than making (yet another) try to save our marriage. He beleives that I wouldn't do that if it weren't for someone else. Admittedly I have probably been a little overprotective of my phone as well.

With all due respect charbon, I'm not sure that psycho-babble like that really helps anybody.

I don't think the term 'psycho-babble' is respectful at all Bobby, but you post your advice and I'll post mine. It's up to the OP and lurkers what they take from our different slants on this.

confusion i get a feeling from your posts that you are trying so hard to do the widely accepted right thing, but not what feels the right thing for you at all.

If this is true then i can imagine that you now worry that all your instincts and 'gut feelings' are suddenly worthless, off the mark and you feel all at sea. You've taken allot of hard decisions the last few days and are wading through deep emotional waters. Maybe slow down a little. I know i said you should tell your DH about your EA - and i stand by that - but give yourself a little time. There is nothing to be gained by rushing into anything.

My own mess situation was different to yours also because my OM was single and childless, easier all round, (what am i saying?! None of it was easy! :) ) so it's tricky for me to put myself in your shoes entirely. However you do seem so worried about your DH leaving if/when he finds out about the EA that i wonder - can you picture life without him? Deep down, is your worry due to love for him, or fear of the unknown? Stepping away from him without the OM beside you?

I cant help you with resisting temptation to contact OM. It's not something i tried. But i think if you have any further conversation with him think about telling him to get back in touch when he's single and you'll do the same. Only under those circumstances will you be free to carry on. If you had both made a clean and decent break with your spouses i mean.

Keep in mind there is more than just the 2 options of staying married or carrying on the affair. There is 2 more - being single, or being single and then getting with the OM 'properly'.

You must be aware and sensible about the fact that obstacles, excitement and the non-domestic all make affair partners seem much more attractive than they probably are.

But what's spoken of less often on here is that occasionally an affair can make the primary partner seem more attractive than they actually are, due to guilt and heroising of the ignorant party.

People tend to feel powerful enough to question and leave relationships once they have the feeling they have alternatives. Otherwise they tend not to very seriously. I don't mean alternatives like other people necessarily, it can be self-sufficiency, a windfall of money or losing lots of weight. This can be very bad a lot of the time and occasionally good when a relationship is very bad and even abusive but someone feels they have no choice. There are many many people I know who would leave their relationships but for financial and child related things they are too comfortable/frightened/lazy to alter.

Here's a good short piece on whether your relationship is over. www.chestnuthillinstitute.com/blog/586

If it's not then really there's no excuse except selfishness for not working on it. People do selfish things all the time, this would just be another one.

But if you want out and you see this as your chance, don't hide behind wanting to be a 'good person' while corroding both relationships from within. Leave. And believe you and others would eventually find happiness. That would be the act of courage even if it hurt.

bobby - I welcome any opinions and have actually found charbons posts really helpful in enabling me to reflect on some things I didn't know/realise/want to admit. So charbon please carry on posting! I know others find it useful too.

I read the article. I do still like and respect my dh and we do have a laugh together but I don't fancy him. I've never fancied him. Can we get back from that? I don't know.

Having said that since we started talking and I said I wasn't happy I have started to see him as more attractive - not sexually but just starte realising what a 'nice' guy he is. And maybe that is fear of being single. It's all very confusing

I would say if you genuinely don't fancy your partner and more importantly, have never fancied him, then there's absolutely no reason to expect that you ever will.

It's a good sign that since talking you have become closer and you are impressed with him.

Think very hard if it's true that you never have been physically attracted to your partner. Try and separate the power of recent feelings of comparison that are related to the OM and routine and longevity.

Think what that means, for him and for you if you do not and have not ever had physical attraction to the person you're with. If that's really the case, and not simply an excise you've some up to explain things now, you are probably best off leaving rather than making you both miserable.

I have been physically attracted to him as in thought he is handsome but I have not been sexually attracted to him in about 4 yrs. when I was sexually attracted to him it was only while we were actually having sex. I would never see him and 'fancy him'. I married him cause i liked him and thought he would treat me well. In recent years I only like having sex with the lights off. I can then just focus on the feelings and not him. Shit that sounds awful.

It sounds like you and he would be happier going your separate ways. I think it's maybe normal to have times when you fancy each other more than others - children, stressful life events etc can get in the way of sexual feelings, but to never feel attracted to him, does suggest he isn't the one you should be with for the rest of your life. Imo, anyway.