How the hell do you deal with DD and DV?

[Binkyridesagain]

I am sat here with a churning stomach, worrying about DD(20)
She has been in a relationship with her hopefully STBXP for 6 months, she went into the relationship knowing he had issues but believed that he was working on them. He had recently ended a relationship with the mother of his young children and moved away from them.
She has spoken to me about issues within the relationship, mainly him sending I love you messages to ex and him seeing DD as a distraction from his family, I have suggested that it is the wrong time and place for this relationship and that maybe she needs to think about stepping back and giving him time and space to sort things properly.
Today they are meant to be going away for the weekend, him to visit his children, her to visit family, however this is up in the air at the moment due to a DV incident last night.
She found another 'I love you' message on his phone, why she looked she can not explain but I believe because in her heart she knew something, she then asked him about it, I wasn't party to this convo but I did witness his reaction.
They were stopping in my caravan, I heard loud banging and shouting, went outside to find her leaving the caravan, got her inside made sure she was physically ok and asked what happened, she explained he had kicked off stamped his feet and then head butted the wall, I asked her why she was with him, not accusatory but in a way that she has to think beyond I love you. Her answer was I don't know, and decided that the planned trip was not going to happen.
She went outside again to get his things from her car, he again kicked off, kicking his stuff around the street. At this point I intervened, without shouting I told him if he continued I would call the police, I said I would not tolerate this behaviour in my home or towards my daughter. He left at high speed in his car.
We finally get to this morning, I have found out that this is not the first kick off, DD has said that previous ones have been mild similar to the incident in the caravan which has resulted in damage to my property. So not a mild temper tantrum.
She has now gone to him to see if she feels safe enough in a car with him to go on their planned trip, she feels guilt because she feels she is letting down his children, letting down her family and would lose money as her hotel is booked and payed for . Knowing her as I do, she will be going with him, I can only hope that the weather stops them.
How do I help her see that there are so many flags waving you would think the queen was visiting, how do I show her she can't fix him, how do I stop worrying ?

Just to clarify, they live in your caravan which is located on your property?

No they don't live in it, sorry I didn't make that clear, they were staying in it last night so they could get an early start today. DD lives at home and P has his own place.

Would it be appropriate for you to go a bit overboard and try banning her from going?! I know that sounds very weird but perhaps she's hoping someone (her DM) can take the lead and help her get out of this? Ground her

Just got a phone call, they are both going, I'm hoping that the snow is bad enough to stop them getting very far, (she's travelling down the M6).
I have told her to be safe, she has attempted to reassure me, she's told him that any kicking off she will be calling the police. Stomach still churning though.

Let her know the only person she would be letting down for getting out of this situation is herself for not valuing her right not be shouted down and witness tantrums from an adult toddler. Her self esteem will plummet if she continues in this.
She needs to know the only expectation you have of her is to know she deserves to be treated with respect at all times and everything is not her fault.

As a parent tell her having children is a fundamentally life changing exeperience and that if having them didn't make him see the light ...nothing will.
Only he can sort himself out and he should do it for himself no one else.

I don't know how you convince her successfully, but I would be very anxious indeed in your place.

All you can do really is point up the things that are so badly wrong with this relationship as lovingly as you can, and keep communication open - his next move will probably be to try and cut her off from you now you've seen what he's really like. It's great that she still lives with you.

I'm trying very hard to remain calm but at times, especially last night, it is very difficult not to scream 'listen to me, I know what I'm talking about, been there done that' but she knows this already, she witnessed it.
'What have I done?' Keeps whirling around inside my head

Oh dear god. I wish had a magic wand that would stop you worrying, honey, but nothing, short of her returning to your home later today, is going to prevent you spending the weekend fearing for her safety.

Has your location been hit by the snowfalls overnight and is it subject to similar warnings that only essential journeys should be undertaken today? How many miles will she have to travel to get to the hotel she's booked? Is it planned that he will stay there with her?

You've said all the right things and have been remarkably restrained in not calling the police last night, possibly out of fear this would alienate her?, and all you can do now is wait for her to realise that she's wasting her time and, if she's paying for hotels, her money on a violent twunt who is using her until he's able to squirm his way back in with the mother of his dc.

Frankly, if it were my property he'd damaged, I'd be on to the police today and report him for criminal damage. It could be that if they pick him up he won't be driving anywhere later today and, given the conditions on the roads, I wouldn't my dd travelling as a passenger with such an unstable knobhead at the wheel.

She's travelling from the northwest down to Brighton, so judging from weather reports, through the worse bits.

How the hell I kept so calm last night I don't know, am I being too calm, too reasonable, should I be giving her the serious talk.

Looking back on my past, I wish my mother had sat me down and told me straight but I know if she had done, I would have ignored most of what she said. It's so hard finding the right balance.

Is this a case of 'don't do as I did, do as I say'?

If so, the 'serious talk' is unlikely to make much impact but reporting him to the police and adopting zero tolerance when it comes t damage to your property may serve to concentrate her mnd or, at the very least, give her pause for thought.

I'd be terrified of alienating her and providing a wedge for him to say 'your mother hates me, she's got it in for me', star-crossed lovers and all that shit.

Could you talk to someone with professional experience who could give you their best advice? Like Women's Aid or agencies dealing with DV.

I'm trying not to do 'do as I say', our conversations tend to be her talking and me listening with occasional 'do you think that is acceptable in a relationship' and 'is that how you want to feel'. I keep repeating to myself 'she is an adult, she can make her own choices'.

I don't want to run the risk of alienating her, at the moment she knows she can talk to me and I want that to continue and I'm sure that she does as well. Baring that in mind, at the moment I don't think involving the police regarding the damage, would be a good move.

Don't you think he's likely to be coming out with that old chestnut already dequoisagitil?

From what the OP has said it seems likely that, at some time in her young life, her dd witnessed her dm being subjected to dv.

If that is the case, the OP needs to draw a very clear line under the past which lets her dd know that once a victim is not always a victim and that she's no longer afraid to assert herself when it comes violent and aggressive men.

And what of this violent twunt who thinks nothing of destroying the OP's property after she's been good enough to allow him to stay in her caravan/home? He needs his collar felt a wake up call, but he's not going to get it if the OP stays schtum out of fear of alienating her dd.

Allowing him to get away with it will only serve to reinforce his belief that he can control women through fear and throw his weight around whenever he chooses. I suspect he wouldn't have kicked off if there'd been a male his own size around.

IMO the OP needs to make it clear to her dd that she adores her and she's always welcome at her home, but this doesn't mean she can turn a bind eye to the damage done to her property by a violent twunt who has, of his own volition, forfeited the right to be welcome on her premises at any time in the foreseeable future.

I would have hoped that women in general, and particularly any who has personally experienced dv, would be educating their dc to have zerio tolerance to violent behaviour of any kind, and that it wouldn't come as any great surprise to them if their dm practises what she preaches.

I am practising what I preach, I did stand up to him and showed that I was not fearful. There has been a very clear line draw with regards to my past, I am not a victim of domestic violence I am a survivor of it, the line was drawn over 15 years ago.

Maybe I haven't or didn't go far enough with educating her but she has received conflicting messages from the important and influencal women in her life, me - with there is no excuse ever! And her grandmother (her biological fathers M and my abuser) has told her that my beatings where justified and sometimes hitting woman is fine, something that has only come to light recently, due to DDs biological father being arrested for assaulting his now exW.
He will not be allowed anywhere near my property again, he will know this later when DH speaks to him about payment for the damage he has caused.

My response to dequoisagitil wasn't intended in any way as a reproof to you, Binky,

You're between the proverbial rock and a hard place of desperately wanting to do something to enable your dd to wake up and smell the java while being fearful alienating her.

However, it is possible to let our dc know that although our love for them is unconditional, this doesn't mean that we will necessarily approve of, or like, everything they do and that, as dps, we have a right to take action if anything they do, or cause to happen by default, adversely affects our quality of life.

I feel for you. Setting aside all other concern, I'd be worried for any relative/friend who was making a journey of several hundred miles by road in today's conditions and can only hope that commonsense will prevail and they'll either turn back, or be turned back by the road traffic authorities.

Have you read the book 'Why Does He Do That' by Lundy Bancroft? It may be an idea for you to buy it and give it to your dd after you've dipped in and out of it so that you can discuss the content with her.

If you were to encourage her to take a look at this board, and possibly solicit opinion as to the likely outcome of liaisons with abusive males, she may come to her own conclusion that she'll be infinitely better off without this tosser cramping her style -but ask mumsnet to delete your post first

Reading dequoiagitil's post again and your response izzy, I can it as a response. I felt I needed to state my position so those, who might post, don't read your post and then understand it as my point of view, I apologise if I was being defensive, it was not my intention.

On rereading I have remembered a comment he made which, at the time, seemed innocent but could in hindsight be seen as the beginning of isolating her. He said he didn't think that I or DH liked him. I have to admit that I have never really taken to him, but I thought I had kept that hidden, I have always been polite and welcoming, treating him as I do all her friends. He has also stated to her he is not overly keen on her friends and in fact last night she visited a friend ( before the kick off) and he refused to leave the car. Lots of little things, that on there own can be seen as nothing important but appear, when seen together, to be the start of controlling her.

I have seen the Lundy Bancroft book talked about a lot on here and always hoped that it was as good as everyone says it is, I never thought that I would be saying, I will have a look it could help.

No apology needed, honey.

An abusive man is invariably a controlling man and it's no great surprise to learn that he's started as he means to go on by denigrating your dd's friends and family with a view to alienating her from all she holds dear.

What you're experiencing can be likened to a battle between you and a particularly nasty piece of work for your dd's soul and it's to be hoped that St Lundy (Mr Bancroft is regarded as something of a saint on this board) will tip the balance in your favour - as knowledge is power, you're unlikely to regret buying 'Why Does He Do That', Binky,

Having heard the 1pm weather report, I can only conclude that he's also supremely arrogant specimen who is no stranger to taking risks to get what he wants.

I undersand why you may not wish to report him to the police, but why not call 101 and get your local community police officer to pay you a visit, express your concern that your dd has become involved with a nutter man who doesn't appear to have her best interests at heart, and ask for general advice as to what you/she can do should he turn violent.

With luck, your cpo may take it on himself to run the twunt's name through the computer and tip you off if it transpires, as I very much suspect, that he's known to the police.

Needs must when the devil drives, Binky, and the twunt your girl's got caught up with is yet another devil in disguise of the type that's well documented here.