Please tell me about your 50-50 contact arrangements.

[ninja]

We've been separated 18 months and muddles through at first.

DD1 (9) had asked to change between us less and other things weren't working and we have our 2nd mediation tomorrow.

StbexH isn't an easy man to negotiate with (although it's clearly all my fault ) He seems to want his cake and eat it. He thinks it's OK, for example, to go away for a week and leave the kids with me and then make up his time on the weekend around that when it suits him. When he takes the kids away he doesn't think I should get any extra time to make up for it ...

Anyway - currently have a 5, 2, 2, 5 2 week timetable with my 2 days being Tue and Wed, his being Sun and Monday - it's not ideal but better than we had before.

So I have some questions:

1. How do you sort out alternating weekends around holidays and when the pattern starts again

2. How do you negotiate holidays

3. What 'rules' do you have if one of you is away or one of you takes the kids away

I'd be really grateful for any input as if we don't have a really clear pattern history tells me unfortunately that exH will take the mickey

Thanks

i have personal experience of this but cant type now marking the place willmtype in am. x

Thanks :)

We have 50:50 but don't think I can help you out because my ex seems much more reasonable than yours.
We continue as usual for holidays, we take extra days if needed without "owing" anything, we "babysit" whenever possible and generally do whatever it takes to keep everyone (especially the kids) happy.
Maybe you could try selling him on the concept of a pleasant life for all?

How does your 50-50 go? Is it one week each or more complicated?

There have been periods where we've managed to negotiate changes but since he took voluntary redundancy he's had far too much time on his hands and just argues.

I have a horrible feeling it's because he's worried I might ask him for some money, which is the last thing I'd do!

I did have them more nights overall in the first year, but that was only because he had 7 holidays and nights out and .... This year he wants 'paying back' for all this.

I just want a simple arrangement that I can predict for the foreseeable future. The ability to have some flexibility would be great too, but I'm beginning to think we might have to sacrifice that for something that works, at least for the moment.

Ah, we have no money exchange hands ever. I pay when I can and so does he and it all balances out.
We do two weeks on but like I said, we will take days in between if needed and I pick them up from school when the ex works late.

we work on a 2 week roling routine.
wk 1 mon - kids with me.
tues - with him
wed with him
thurs fri sat sun with me
mon with him
tues wed with me
thurs fri sat sun with him

we do it like this cos of his work hours. its been working well for 3 years now. Like stupid flanders we do holidays and nights out as and when with out payback.

we didnt do it at mediation we worked it out and went to a solicitor and had an agreement drawn up. we dont exchange money because we have 50 50. if the kids need a big ticket item we try to do 50 50 payment.

we try to keep the kids holidays to 2 weeks each with me and him. he never goes away with out them and we try to keep nights out to the times when we dont have the kids.

hope that helps. anything else u need to know give me a shout.

We've done 50/50 for 2 years with DC who is 5, but ours is very flexible. We tend to do 3 days with me, 3 days with him - which is what DC asked for, but sometimes it ends up being different. How we actually work it out is with a shared calendar and just filling it in a few weeks in advance. If one of us has an event or going away for a weekend or something then we had to the calendar and just work out the schedule around that. We don't really keep score of owing time or 'paying back', although we both do favours for the other and that is in both of our interests. With regards weekends, we try to make it so that neither has the entire weekend if the rolling pattern falls that way, just so that our child gets to see both of us over the weekend and that we both get at least some free weekend time ourselves.

How do you think the holidays should work?

We started out doing one day with ex, one day with me. That seemed to work for a while (we split up about 5 years ago) as it seemed fair and the kids were very clear that they wanted the same with both of us (though I do have them for 4 nights and ex 3 which somehow makes me feel better!).

Now our oldest is as secondary school he has so much more to organise and deal with and we are thinking of rearranging. Your 2-weekly plan above is what I have worked out may be best - the kids then have small chunks with each. I now think if we had thought about it more, we would have seen that one day with each is pretty complicated. I find it difficult myself, and I'm an adult - it must be very hard for kids, though as they don't know any different, they say they're ok with it. I like the idea of having a proper chunk of the weekend at one house or the other too - I think that will be much better for them. I think I'm lucky in the the kids have remained pretty stable and secure (as far as I can tell) and this does help. They are also pretty easy going.

I think that whatever you do, it does rely on understanding from both parents which is difficult when you don't get on. Part of the reason we didn't think enough about how we'd work out the arrangements is because we didn't really speak and mostly communicated by email/text which didn't help (not my choice). Sorry, quite a long thread, it's on my mind at the moment though. I have moments of clarity and moments of panic about changing things!

Brisdex We started with one day alternating too as it's what my DC needed at the time of separation: 3 years old and really needed the certainty and stability of seeing both of us every day. Don't think it's that common though so interesting to read someone else did it. I suspect we'll move to something like the plans mentioned here as time goes on.

Split when children were 16 and 13 and did 4 days each, at xdhs insistence. Frankly was a complete pain and the kids didn't like it much as every week was different and they had to be super organised. Xdh was impossible to negotiate with so we all lived with it for a while. There was some fuss initially over holidays but as he had more holidays than me it soon went away. Then dd and xdh had a major falling out so the whole thing went out of the window.

Suffice it to say, as your dd grows up her needs will change and you are going to have to renegotiate every few years. Remember it's a three way negotiation - she's the one having to flip backwards and forwards and she deserves a big say. May be difficult to convince your xdh of this - mine still doesn't get it.

Thanks.

My eldest is 9 and as I said she wanted chunks of time which is why I suggested the alternating weekend which we finally agreed at the first mediation session. I wanted to keep the same week says because of after school clubs etc.

Youngest is now 4 and she was fine at first but is now beginning to realise that things are different and that has caused some issues.

Problem is ex can't refrain from shouting at me in front of the kids so the fewer changes the better!

It sounds like most of you manage to do it more amicably than us, I hope we can get to that stage.

Thing is I was always the primary carer and I miss the kids like mad, it's good that they get to spend time with both of us though.

Re holidays, not sure how it should work. Negotiation would be good. Just was hoping someone had a magic answer!

Please dont get me wrong. when i first seperated from my ex he hated me and made no attempt to hide that. everything i suggested was poo poo'd as he had it in his head i was trying to con him. id say it took between 6 months and a year for our routine to settle down. As i earn more than him he still starts if my holiday is "better" than his and his new girlfriend causes problems by suggesting he does too much for the kids. (shes a numpty).

We're 18 montsh in and it's getting worse .

We just had our second mediation this morning and he just shouted at me, shouted at them, told lies, claimed he was hard done by even though I've said yes to all his requests and he's not agreeing any of mine

This means when he's planning to take them away during school time, and the weekend before he won't let me have one day with them when I get back. This means he has a run of 3 weeks when I only see them for 3 school nights.

He's chosen away for a week on Sat and he's had an extra weekend and an extra night with them and is still complaining.

We got NOTHING agreed in the mediation this time as he's so unreasonable. I ended up really upset

Not quite sure where to go from here

I think 50-50 care like you are trying to accommodate only works well when the parents can be civil to one another and work together in the children's best interests.

It doesn't sound like your ex is the slightest bit reasonable and is trying to use the children to control you. The fact that he didn't do so much care for them when you were together but now wants 'his share' could suggest that it's not just wanting to spend time with them that motivates him.

Have you had any legal advice? Can you rule mediation out now as it can only work when people can actually try and use it to make arrangements rather than to demonstrate their overblown sense of entitlement?

I would see a solicitor and see what your options are. If you are going to go the 50-50 route I think you will have to have all your plans for where the children spend their time in writing and there can be no deviation if he's going to take the piss like this and keep encroaching on your time.

It couldn't be that he wants more than 50% time with them so that you will have to pay him money could it?!

Sun, Mon, Tues nights - him
Weds, Thurs, Fri nights - me
Alternative Saturdays.

Holidays - half and half, usually a week at a time.

Flexibility - I agree to almost anything that involves me having the kids more unless it's ridiculously short notice or I have already made plans.
I rarely agree to any other changes and rarely ask for anything more than my allocated days. He says I should be flexible. I know that if I was he would take the piss.

I've said yes to all his requests and he's not agreeing any of mine
Why do you always say 'yes'? Why not try saying 'no' and let him know he can't have it all his own way.

lovingfreedom 'Hi' again!

I say yes because sometimes his requests are reasonable and I hope in my heart of hearts that he'll be reasonable back. He's not below involving the kids and being spiteful for holiday requests if I don't He's having them tonight because he's away for next week and while I was tempted to say that I would collect them as officially it should be my night, it's definitely not in the children's interest to do that when they're expecting to go to his.

I agree with you as well - 'I agree to anything that means I have the kids more' - I'm the same, but since September he always wants some payback. I also have to go to conferences over night 3 times a year and I will miss out on them on those days as well - but I have no choice in this.

ChooChooLaverne thing is about mediation is that we do need to come to an agreement and we need to do something that's best for the kids - I'm not sure that getting into a long drawn put court battle will do that. I have had a free appointment from a solicitor and so maybe it is worth consulting her and seeing if there are any other paths.

It maybe a money thing, but as last year it worked out that I had them a lot more (as he went away on lots of holidays and also he asked me to have them overnight at the last minute lots of times) I think I could argue my way out of that one.

'it can only work when people can actually try and use it to make arrangements rather than to demonstrate their overblown sense of entitlement?' that's exactly it - he does have a huge sense of entitlement :(

I think we will come up with a plan with no flexibility except for the holidays. I think that will means that this year I'll lose out as he's had his plans agreed and I haven't. It should be better in the long run though.

Just need to try and work out how to sort out the remaining holidays :(

My advice would be:

Stop talking to him altogether. Tell him you will only communicate through email. This means that you always get time to think/consult/draft replies/let off steam etc and you never row in front of the children.

Only communicate about times, places for drop-offs plus ESSENTIAL education and health matters. Again only by email.

If you have to see him, small talk only restricted to 3 - 5 mins max, while dropping off/picking up children. If he tries to discuss anything serious say 'ok, put it in an email'.

Send him a schedule of dates/times. If possible arrange so that you control as much of the changeover as possible. So e.g. he takes the kids to school on his drop off day, but you pick them up. So if possible, you don't rely on him 'bringing them back'.

Be absolutely rigid about your days and his days. Do not arrange anything for his days. If things like parties/school trips etc crop up just send the details on to him (pref in the kids' school bag). Take no responsibility for anything during his time.

If he asks to arrange anything during your time, say you are sorry but you already have plans.

If he asks you to cover some of his time, decide if it suits you or not and agree/don't agree accordingly. BUT DO NOT agree to giving him time back in lieu - if he chooses to lose his days, that's it.

Find an alternative babysitter if you need it on your days. Do not take any 'favours' from him.

You might be able to introduce some flexibility in future. But while he's playing silly buggers and messing you around I'd say the zero tolerance, zero flexibility approach works best.

If you have to see him, small talk only restricted to 3 - 5 mins max, while dropping off/picking up children. If he tries to discuss anything serious say 'ok, put it in an email'.

I have tried this - he called me a dickhead in front of DD2 when I walked away.

It is always worth reminding of it though.

Send him a schedule of dates/times. If possible arrange so that you control as much of the changeover as possible. So e.g. he takes the kids to school on his drop off day, but you pick them up. So if possible, you don't rely on him 'bringing them back'.

Yes - the new arrangement that I pushed for at the mediation does cut down on the face-to-face drop offs and will be even better when DD2 goes to school next year (unless he decides he can't pick up suddenly on his days, which is quite possible) I won't complain about that though

If he asks you to cover some of his time, decide if it suits you or not and agree/don't agree accordingly. BUT DO NOT agree to giving him time back in lieu - if he chooses to lose his days, that's it.

Trust me I will be doing this from now on

Find an alternative babysitter if you need it on your days. Do not take any 'favours' from him.

This is the difficult one as I don't know what I can do for an overnight conference? I've also got work booked predating the change of contact arrangements which mean I may need to aks him to pick up the kids and take them to swimming lessons. I will make sure this isn't the case for the next academic year, but I just can't do it for this one.

Thanks though, good advice

I know it's not easy ninja.
I tend to limit the drop off time to 'there we go...cheerio kids'.
I try to maintain an aura of being cheerfully busy. So I'm always in a hurry to get away. Always very upbeat with the 'bye bye' to kids.
So if I say 'oh just put it in an email' he'll swear too but I say 'sorry, got to go'
Have a think about friends who might be able to help you out and don't be afraid to ask other people for help if you need to.
I don't know about your little one, but I've found that sleepovers are very popular with the slightly older children. If you build up a few sleepovers for other people's children then you might find that you can ask those parents to return the favour on your conference nights. This kind of thing has saved the day for me a couple of times.

Having said all that ninja my ex still drives me mad sometimes....and I still have major fantasies about him falling off cliffs, spontaneously combusting, being smashed to a million tiny pieces, ravished by rabid dogs etc.

Yes lovingfreedom I have those fantasies too - would make life soooo much easier ;)

I could arrange a sleepover for the eldest, it's juts the 4 year old - I don't have any friends good enough to put up with her!! Family are 1.5 hours away and quite possibly wouldn't do either of the journeys which would make life hard for me and possibly impossible. I might try and work it out though for my next conference.