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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

so fed up with this situation at work

28 replies

wantanewname · 15/01/2013 21:42

Really fed up with work and just don't know how to resolve it. Every day I tell myself I'm lucky to have a reasonably well paid, sometimes interesting job so that I don't walk out but it's such a struggle. I used to manage a small team (7 members in it) and did a good job. There was one member of the team (Steve) who wasn't directly employed by me who was always very difficult, constantly undermining me, sarcastic etc but the others were lovely and the team worked well.

18 months ago we had a restructure which meant our team came under a wider, bigger team and we had a new manager. We all had to apply for our jobs and all went up a couple of grades but ended up with less responsibility and I was no longer a manager.

The woman employed to be our manager ended up having a breakdown as she couldn't cope with the work and a vacancy was created. (She was sidelined into something else). In the meantime I had had a very bad year, my partner was seriously ill and other home worries meant that I developed depression and though I only had a couple of weeks off work I wasn't too interested in work.

When the vacancy came up both me and Steve went for the managers job and he got it. I felt very undermined by this as he had been my (difficult) employee for a number of years and now he is my boss. Not only that but he is still a nightmare to me. He still undermines me in meetings, is sarcastic and rude to me via email and in person and even in front of other people in meetings. The problem is he is charming to everyone else and everyone thinks he saved the day when my manager couldn't cope. There is noone to complain to. My own more senior manager thinks he is wonderful and I would be seen to be a trouble maker by complaining and I can't stand being there. But there is hardly any work in my field and I don't want to be forced out.

OP posts:
Original poster
wantanewname · 15/01/2013 21:47

really want some advice if anyone can give me some!

OP posts:
Bilbobagginstummy · 15/01/2013 21:48

I do not think I could stay working for him. Can you move elsewhere in the organisation?

Gumby · 15/01/2013 21:51

It might be better under employment

If you have email evidence could you show that to the more senior boss

CogitoErgoSometimes · 15/01/2013 21:51

Have you tried being rude and sarcastic back? Fight fire with fire? Sometimes this rather confrontational, aggressive, type of behaviour masks major insecurity and inadequacy. Stand up to it and you pop their bubble.

MerylStrop · 15/01/2013 21:56

Times are tough and why should you leave your job?
Keep note of everything that he does, including his rude emails
Ensure you have good relationships with your other colleagues
You've got his number. The truth will out

Original poster
wantanewname · 15/01/2013 21:58

It is usually sarcasm and making out that I don't know what I'm talking about. Incidentally I have about 12 years experience in the field, he has about 4. I would come across as aggressive if I answered him back (the time when I was off with depression and wasn't into work that much didn't do me any favours and he used the time to his advantage. I am looking to move elsewhere in the organisation but there are very few opportunities.

OP posts:
Original poster
wantanewname · 15/01/2013 21:59

MerylStrop I have started keeping his emails but I think it'll go nowhere as I said I have noone to complain to.

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CogitoErgoSometimes · 15/01/2013 22:02

If you have 8 years head start on him surely you can outwit him? If he's been promoted into a job he can't actually do he'll stitch himself up sooner or later. Help it along perhaps?

MerylStrop · 15/01/2013 22:04

When he undermines you in meetings be prepared to respond. Be prepared to correct him or just tell him that you don't appreciate his attitude. Extremely calmly and politely. Show the gravitas of your experience. You do not need to appear to be emotional or aggressive.

Is there not a more senior manager you can talk to or a "listening ear" most organisations have someone you can go to with issues? Most organisations would be sensitive to the situation with a boss/team member role reversal with a long term employee.

Southeastdweller · 15/01/2013 22:04

Don't you have an H.R department you could speak to?

PopMusicShoobyDoobyDoA · 15/01/2013 22:08

Do you have a personnel dept? Can you approach them?

It's really hard when you are being singled out and the others are probably relieved that its not them. I do think you need to gather strength and get assertive. If he is aggressive or belittles your comments in meetings etc, pull him up on it, not aggressively, just firmly. If he writes a rude email, email him that he might have a valid point/idea but that you don't appreciate his rudeness.

Keep a diary of incidences, comments, keep emails as evidence and then approach the more senior manager with evidence.

Speedos · 15/01/2013 22:09

I feel for you OP as I have worked for and with some fuckers in my time. I wish there was a solution but by the sounds of things your only options are to leave or ignore it. It doesn't sound like you have any kind of case for constructive dismissal unfortunately.

I personally would try to look for something else but stay put until you do, you will at least feel there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

Original poster
wantanewname · 15/01/2013 22:12

Yes I do have an HR dept I could talk to. My work seems oblivious to the role reversal thing and I do think he can do the job. He seems to be nasty to me but in a kind of jokey sarcastic way, talking over me, dismissing my ideas type way that are difficult to pinpoint. I would honestly be seen as a trouble maker as during the time I was down me and several others (although I was more verbal) expressed our dislike of a difficult project manager and it back fired on me. So despite years of no problems, coming into this new team has not been easy for me and he has used that to his advantage.

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Original poster
wantanewname · 15/01/2013 22:14

Speedos that is my view. I feel I need to look for another opportunity within my organisation (partly because I have alot on at home at the moment and would prefer to stay where I know) but there are very few opportunities so it could be months/years.

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allibaba · 15/01/2013 22:17

want I really feel for you. Its horrible being in this position as I have found.

I left and feel much better for it. If your boss won't see his true colours and won't believe sometimes its best to leave. Annoying I know but I tend to find withoutstrenght in numbers, you end up being labelled a trouble maker or the one with the problem.

Katisha · 15/01/2013 22:17

Is there any merit in meeting with him and saying look cards on the table. You don't need to behave to me like this, I am not trying to be a threat to you despite having done the job for longer, and therefore you do not need to constantly try to prove your superiority - its very wearing so can you just stop. But don't make yourself sound like a victim.

Original poster
wantanewname · 15/01/2013 22:19

I wish I could leave though but we are dependent on my wages and there aren't many jobs around. I could be out of work for ages. I don't want to meet him as he would simply deny it and make out it was me.

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Graceparkhill · 15/01/2013 22:20

Could you face having an open discussion with him? Keep it professional and positive ( not saying this would be easy)emphasising your wish to do a good job/ support him in his demanding role etc
Try to clarify / quantify what his "problem "is and then agree targets etc to move forward .

Original poster
wantanewname · 15/01/2013 22:26

Graceparkhill, no I just can't face it because as I said, he'd deny any problems.

OP posts:
Graceparkhill · 15/01/2013 22:34

If he denies any problems then that is a result -you have been professional, given him an opportunity to respond if he doesn't identify any issues you can get on with doing a good job.

You don't have to be confrontational with him. You could try an open review type discussion - how can I improve my performance / what can I do to support you in your role?

This can then lead on to what you need from him- drop the sarcasm or whatever.

Original poster
wantanewname · 15/01/2013 22:36

no, I just can't face it. I really don't want a chat with him but thanks anyway.

OP posts:
LessMissAbs · 16/01/2013 01:42

I second the idea of fighting fire with fire - don't be rude or do or say anything that comes back on you, but be confrontational. ""Why are you asking that?" is a good question. If he tries to accuse you of something, just smirk and say "I don't know what you mean".

Try and goad him into doing something you can complain about.

Is this a potential sex discrimination case - if you are female and he is male, and you have been demoted and he promoted although you have greater experience, it sounds like less favourable treatment on grounds of sex. However you yourself say you "weren't too interested in work" for a period - this may be why he was promoted, because your performance fell. Could it be that Steve developed a poor impression of you during this time?

Unfortunately the way the working world is, you risk being sacked or demoted if you aren't too interested in work - I know I would probably be sacked in my field, as my performance is constantly monitored in terms of the amount of profit I bring in for my employer.

HoHoHoNoYouDont · 16/01/2013 01:55

He is threatened by you and your experience. By putting you down he's trying to wear you down and break you. He's a bully.

jjgirl · 16/01/2013 04:06

He does it because he is emotionally immature and he knows it gets to you. You need to ignore it completely and as much as possible ignore his existence. Hard to do when he is the boss but don't let his immaturity ruin your life.

olgaga · 16/01/2013 08:17

jjgirl is right. My only advice would be, keep a diary in case you need to rely on it if things get more serious or he starts to question your performance.

In the meantime, keep an eye out for other jobs and perhaps sign up with a couple of good agencies in your line of work. It's a heck of a lot easier to get a new job when you're already employed than if you are jobless!

I'd say there's one like this in every workplace in the world - it's bad luck if they're the boss but hopefully, if his managers think the sun shines out of his arse then hopefully he'll move on at some point.