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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Telling a friend it's wrong to have an affair...

19 replies

lizzywig · 15/01/2013 20:59

She's in her early 40's, I love her dearly, she's single, she's had a lot of bad luck in life but remains a positive person, she'd help anyone in a heartbeat and she has fallen in love with a man who is married with two young children. They work together, in fact his wife works at the same company but she's on maternity leave. This is going to end in disaster.

It started when they were working on the same project together, it started as innocent emails, asking how the other persons weekend was, telling a joke etc. One day she confided in me that she had feelings for him but she talked about it in a crush type way, i.e. nothing serious and she'd never take it further, I took it with a pinch of salt knowing he was married he's the man that walks around the office in specs and leather patches on the elbows of his cord jacket, a real geeky quiet and shy person. One day she said she thought he felt the same based on the quantity of emails he was sending, they had lots in common. Her friend told her to stop contact, I said that given they were working on the same project she should phase out the non work emails and just take a lot longer to reply/not respond at all on some occasions. I had no idea what to say and no idea now if this was right or not. She cut the emails down but his emails persisted and he would instigate all contact, some of which she would reply to. A couple of weeks ago she confronted him, told him that she had feelings for him and that he shouldn't email her anymore. He was taken aback and said he felt the same and that they shouldn't discuss over email but in person.

They met after work for a drink and talked for an hour about it all. He said the usual, the sparks gone with my wife etc. Then she told him she'd fallen in love with him and that he needed to leave her alone and work on his marriage. She text me after saying she hated saying it to him because she didn't want to but knew it was the right thing. This just seems to have escalated and today he brought in his favourite book wrapped up along with a card saying he didn't regret what she'd said and at the moment he's torn between his heart and head.

I spent our lunch hour today going through a long list of reasons why this is all a bad idea, for his children, his wife, him and my friend. She took everything in that I said but sort of accepted what I was saying, acknowledging it but still not being able to put her feelings aside. I'm worried, she's my friend and she's been through so much the last few years and I just want her to move on. I don't want her to break up a family, she's a good person and would regret this (she already does) and told her that if he's having problems with his wife he needs to decide this for him/them and not because he's been tempted.

They haven't even kissed but this seems like a slippery slope to me and emotionally it's an affair isn't it?! She said to me that she knows this is wrong and if she was his wife she would drag her (her, being my friend) out of the building by the hair and knock her out. She knows this is wrong...how do you help/reason/talk to someone who know's it's wrong but seems to be getting more involved? Maybe it's not my place but I just feel like I can't see someones family get ruined and if I could make the difference for my friend not to be the reason then I would. If she had never come along and he'd left his wife on his own accord that would be another story but I know my friend isn't playing fair!

OP posts:
Xales · 15/01/2013 21:11

The spark hadn't gone that long ago given that the wife is currently on maternity leave! More likely that he isn't getting much sex due to her just having a baby, lack of sleep, not being her number one priority right now... Your friend is there to shower the attention that he is not getting due to new baby, lack of sleep, god knows what other post birth problems.

Where did he tell his wife he was when he had nice cosy heart to hearts and drinks with your mate while she was left at home with the children and probably doing dinner. Bet he didn't tell his wife he was off for a cosy chat with another woman about their romantic relationship. No chance he would have lied or misled.

What make her think he will treat her any better in the long run?

She should tell him to get lost and pay attention to his wife and mean it, not a wishy washy I love you but we mustn't, we are just star crossed lovers...

Nothing you can stop her from doing this though. Sad

Delayingtactic · 15/01/2013 21:16

You can't stop this from happening unless she's open to stopping it herself. It is going to end horribly. Sorry I know that's not much help but you are trying to do the right thing.

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange · 15/01/2013 21:19

You can't stop her.

Of course this will end in tears.

All you can do is try to make her see that any man who will cheat on his wife after she has just had a baby is a bastard not worth having. He will use her if she lets him, he will never leave his wife. A complete waste of time.

DrGoogleWillSeeYouNow · 15/01/2013 21:41

He may surprise us all and leave his wife before embarking on anything further with your friend. He won't.

But there is nothing you can do. Your friend is already involved in an emotional affair. She is kidding herself. She continued with the e-mails with him after acknowledging her feelings to herself and you. Really there was absolutely no need to meet this man outside of work for a drink to discuss any feelings, but she did.

She is saying all the right things to you but doing all the wrong things in reality.

You can't stop her. What you can do is refuse to indulge her in any further "I shouldn't be doing this but I still will ..." conversations. You've spent an hour discussing with her today why this is a bad idea. I'd bet it went in one ear and out the other. Leave her to it.

DuchessFanny · 16/01/2013 14:14

what Xales said ^

CogitoErgoSometimes · 16/01/2013 14:20

"Maybe it's not my place "

It isn't. Everyone in the story is a grown-up and knows the score. You don't have to condone but it really isn't your place to play Jiminy Cricket either. Be ready with the 'I told you so's' in due course.

scaevola · 16/01/2013 14:28

You've made your views known; all you can do now I refuse to get drawn into discussing, facilitating or colluding in the dishonest secrecy which inevitably surrounds an affair. If she mentions it, assure her you are her friend and will be there to support her when (not 'if') I all goes horribly, horribly wrong. Remind her to keep her CV continually up to date, as changing jobs is often advisable post discovery. Tell her you will not bubble her about this dreadful mistake, but neither will you lie if asked a straight question by someone who deserves an honest answer. Then say you do not want discuss it again - and change the subject.

If she mentions I again, ask "Are you mentioning him because you are telling me you no longer see him?". Unless that is the case, then try stonewalling "I've already said everything I want to about this" - and change the subject.

AnyFucker · 16/01/2013 14:28

Say it once and then leave it.

I would also cool the friendship right down. You are in danger of being the mug who has to listen and sympathise with all the romantic idiocy they will be both spouting. I would refuse to listen, and tell her why. Be around when she needs someone to pick up the (inevitable) pieces.

GetOrf · 16/01/2013 14:33

I agree with anyf and cogito. You have said your piece, but these daft fools seem to have an air of inevitability about them. I think your conscience is best served by stating that you don't want to listen to all the affair angst as you are not interested. I assume that this will cool the friendship down a bit, as your friend may want someone to cheerlead them through this and out the other side.

Lovingfreedom · 16/01/2013 14:40

Maybe tell her you've said your piece now and you're not interested in hearing any more about it. Can we move on and talk about something else. It might take a bit of the 'glamour' out of the endeavour if it's not a hot topic that her friends are in a froth about.

KeepCoolCalmAndCollected · 16/01/2013 15:07

Difficult as she is your friend, but I would try not to get too involved for your own sake because this sort of thing can be very emotionally draining. As sure as eggs are eggs, she'll do what she wants to do regardless of your good advice.

BUT, I would ask her one very direct & simple question: Have you got it in you to have an affair/break up a family with a man who has just had a baby?

Abitwobblynow · 16/01/2013 18:51

she confronted him, told him that she had feelings for him ... is when it exploded out of control.

This conressing of attraction is when the affair is acted upon, and becomes physical.

Pilgit · 16/01/2013 19:04

my father is the only adulterer i know who actually left the marriage (rather than being kicked out). From his behaviour over the last 12 years i think he bitterly regrets it. There is nothing more you can do. they need to grow up - hopefully they will

cuillereasoupe · 16/01/2013 19:48

I wonder if she'd be up for reading Not just friends? It might help her to realise that what she thinks is taking steps to stop the affair (meeting to "discuss the situation") is exactly where it starts.

Teapot13 · 16/01/2013 20:51

If she doesn't have time for Not Just Friends, suggest she read this board for an afternoon. She will undoubtedly recognize the lines he used on her ("spark is gone. . .") and hopefully realize what a cliche this all is.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 16/01/2013 21:06

A bored, middle-aged, woman with a romance-delusion and who is desperate for a shag is not going to be reading self-help books, the MN boards or listening to well-meaning friends!!! Grin

Abitwobblynow · 16/01/2013 22:05

Can I quote my male, gay, ass-kicking straight-talking therapist friend about affiars (his 'clients' choosing affairs)?

'You are making a BIG mistake and this is not going to end well. Affairs are a SYMBOL. You are living a fantasy and it is not real. [OW/OM/the fuckee] is irrelevant'.

lizzywig · 12/02/2013 20:47

Thank you all for replying and sorry for not coming back to this thread sooner. You're all right and I appreciate your advice.

Cogito - it isn't my place, you're right, you're SO right, it doesn't make it any easier when you see it happening though.

AnyFucker - this is who I am becoming, she wants to confide and she's a good friend, it's very hard to cool down a friendship when you love someone dearly just because you disagree with what they are doing.

It would appear they have now embarked on a fully fledged affair (minus the sex but with everything else - how this makes it better I do not know - it's not better). I have told her how I feel and actually it's very interesting to hear the OW's POV which is so contrasting and more than somewhat in denial to that of the wives and girlfriends on MN.

When I told her what I thought she said, "but you're married so you don't have an impartial view, you can only see it from your perspective, you know me and you know I'm your friend and would never intentionally hurt someone and that is a threat to you because you see it could so easily happen to you". To which I responded "but you are intentionally hurting someone", she knows this and feels bad about the children but not so much the wife because....she feels a different connection with him than with any other relationship. He says he feels the same, I said it's probably the adrenaline. I also think they're all lines.

She genuinely thinks this is not a normal affair and that his feelings for her are on another level to that of his wife. Even when they discussed him leaving her he said he could never do it. She says quote "I don't know how this is going to pan out but I have to find out", I said "it's going to end in heartbreak and disaster". Perhaps that's her punishment (her heartbreak) for breaking his wife's heart and tearing their family apart.

My friend has been through more hurt in her life than one should have to deal with, I think it's made her feel like she has to live life to the full and not settle. This is true of course but not when it comes to men who are taken! It also means that I think it's impossible to get the message through so I've stopped trying and I'm trying to back away. It's very hard though because she means so much to me and I see her getting hurt in this too. It's very strange how she believe this affair is different - head/brick-wall.

Some days I come home and confide in my husband about how sad this all makes me. It's made me feel quite deflated and worn out, partly because I now realise how easy it is for people to have affairs but also because I can see this ending in disaster and wish there was something I could do but as you have all quite rightly pointed out there isn't.

OP posts:
kalidanger · 12/02/2013 20:53

If she's had a lot if hurt in her life then she could be a bit more bloody empathetic to others'. Silly cow.

Don't feel deflated, you're lovely and being a caring person Sad Give your DH a squeeze and be glad you're happy.

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