i need some help

[confusedmummy]

I'd like to know if any other mums out there's husbands/partners got PND. Because my DH sure did and is still suffering on/off (our DS is 8 months).
It was really bad to start with and he said stuff like 'I wish we'd never had him' and 'I hate him'. He took himself off to the spare room for months and I did all the childcare (literally all).
The HV said I shouldn't leave our DS with DH which made me feel terrible, like I didn't trust him. But she said that because sometimes when DH gets depressed he threw stuff about and she said that put DS in danger (I could see that, but it was really upsetting to think that my DH might accidentally harm our son).
Now it's getting better. On occasion (through necessity) I've even left DS with him and it's all gone fine. THey have a better bond and sometimes he gives DS his bath. But he doesn't do anything regularly to help with the childcare. It goes in phases. Sometimes he'll do the early morning nappy to give me a nano-second longer in bed (DS rarely sleeps through so I get really tired and am still BF). But this nappy changing seems to have tailed off.
Sometimes it's like he's completely unaware of DS. I was having a shower (a total luxury these days!) and DS was grizzling and crying on the floor (got stuck on his tummy and couldn't get onto his back). DH was in the room with DS, but was doing literally nothing to help DS. I had to come downstairs and attend to DS.
Also it's like a switch in his head. Tonight he came home from work and was fine. Chatted as usual. Played with DS. Then when DS was in bed, I asked what he wanted for supper. I suggested pasta with tomato sauce. He then went off in a silent mood. Eventually I managed to get him to say he was in a mood because he didn't want tomato sauce. How irrational is that? I struggle to understand, but it must be his depression that makes him like this. He just sat staring into space not saying anything else. Then he went to bed (this was 7.30pm), so here I am with another long evening all by myself again. It happens like this about once every 2 months, but I really hate it.
I really need to underline that it is his DEPRESSION that makes him like this. I really believe that. If I didn't, I don't think we'd still be married. I am a Catholic and really believe truly that marriage is for life and take my vows very seriously.
I don't know what I'm asking for, really. Just needed to tell someone what it's like, and to perhaps hear from people who also live with partners/husbands with depression.

CM - I dont know what advice to offer but I do know a little of how you feel - My dh can sit for ages and not say a word, often I think his brain inhabits private little world of his own. He is convinced he is not depressed, I disagree!!

I hope someone far more helpful than me comes along soon!

Confusedmummy, I'm not an expert on depression but there are lots of women on here who have suffered from it themselves and hopefully one of them will be along soon to offer some real advice.

I just wanted to say that you have my admiration, dealing with a new baby is hard work on its own and can't imagine how it must be for you to have to cope with your partners depression as well.

Is your DH getting any help with his depression?

Hi confused mommy, sorry to hear what your going through.Is your Dh on any medication for his depression and has he been offered any councelling? Do you talk about it with him and explain how his behaviour effects you and ds? Fortunatley my Dp is great but he is often on the receiving end of my depression. Can your hv put you in touch with any groups that can offer you any practical help with ds or the housework?

confused mommy, my dp sounds just like yours. sometimes he is absolutely great with her, then i have to remind him to talk to her, that she isn't a plank of wood. and he gets upset when he feels that she has a better bond with me.

is the type of man that might accept he needs help? or maybe he might be more willing to accept help if it was someone just sitting talking to him. it might also help if that someone was a trained counsellor and impartial because it might feel wrong for him to say things to you.

you're not alone sweetie, so please don't think you are ((((((((hugs)))))))

i am afraid i would just be screaming at his to grow up and get over himself.

or go see a doctor.

sulking over pasta sauce. for gods sake

Appartently postnatal depression in men is now a recognised condition, appartently a lot of men do suffer from this (there was even an epsiode on holby city on it!!!), he needs help and sounds like you need support too. You must have the patience of a saint.

for you, confusedmummy. Bear in mind also that it might get better as your DS gets older. My DH reacted to both DD and DS when they were babies just like your DH, although we didn't have the throwing things. He just wasn't interested, and sometimes downright resentful of them. He's been on anti-depressants for about 3 years now, and it is helping. also as they've grown older and more 'interesting' (in his eyes), talking, interacting more etc, he's much, much better with them both, and really does the whole 'dad' thing that seemed to be missing when they were babies, often much better than I do. I hope you can both find a way through this. It's horrible to live through. HTH.

Thanks for all these replies. I just felt really alone because I haven't really told anyone except the HV and DH's mother who obviously knows what he's like. Somehow I think talking to people who don't know what depression's like just see him as really unreasonable and don't offer any real help, and my family and friends mostly fall into that category.

He had another bout of depression just before we got married and didn't work for nearly a year, and then he did go to the doctors and got counselling and anti-depressants. But the anti-depressants made him really lethargic the whole time and he hated that. So this time when I suggested he go to the doctor he said "I don't want to rely on drugs." He takes homeopathic remedies (omega 3 etc.) but that's it.

He's also worried that if he goes to the doctor they'll sign him off and his work situation is really precarious at the moment (he's employed but doesn't have a written contract - don't ask) and the school doesn't have insurance against staff going sick so we'd then just have no money coming in.

I don't think he's coping with the pressure of being the breadwinner. Before we were married I was the breadwinner and we even lived most of a year just on my salary and I think that was easier for him, because he knew deep down if he got too depressed to work he could just stop and we would still have money. But I took a part-time job when I got pregnant so I could do more childcare. So my job doesn't earn enough on its own now. But even if I went back to work full time, I don't think he'd cope with the childcare, so DS would have to be with the childminder full time, and I really don't want that. I want at least one of his parents to care for him most of the time.

DH's gone to work really early today before DS and I woke, so I guess from that he's not over it yet. Obviously he's not really sulking over pasta sauce, that's just the (not very convincing) reason he gave.

He just came home, said "Sorry" and then carried on as normal (chatting etc.) He's gone to sort out my parents' DVD player now.

That's it. That's how it happens every time. I never ever press him for an explanation afterwards as to what it was that set him off, although I'd really really like one as I think it would help me understand and cope with his illness. As it is I get literally no warning. One moment he's fine, the next he isn't speaking to me for 24 hours.

Sometimes he says "It's not you" but these moods always seem to be sparked by something I do e.g. pasta sauce, me not having tided the house sufficiently, me putting leeks into a stirfry too soon - always really petty little things that I think a 'normal' person could just overlook.

But I never ask because I think it will dredge it all up again and when he's obviously feeling better I don't want to make him feel bad again.

Perhaps he hasn't got an explanation? Is it the case that people with depression can't really explain what triggers the 'black dog'?

confused, I think you are dealing with this like an angel!

A friend of mine has a DP with long standing depression, and she also seems to display great patience with her man. But I have to say, she does come to the point of telling him what is and isn't acceptable. Yes, he's depressed, but some things bring her to the end of her tether and she will basically let him know in no uncertain terms. She (and you!) also deserve consideration and deserve being treated with respect.

Obviously you are prepared to deal with alot because you understand that it comes from an illness, but you should NOT put up with and take everything. There are limits and I feel you should tell him strongly where these are, wherever you feel "That's it, I can't take that". With my friend, it's the interation with her children. She won't let him ignore them or shout at them - there is a certain level of interaction that they deserve from a parent who brought them into the world and she makes it clear to him that this is the case. If he literally can't do it, he goes to bed or another room to be alone.

It sounds harsh, but as your DS gets older I think maybe it will be your role to ensure the quality of interaction between them, as it will be really important to your child! And to ensure your DH has the insight to take himself off if he is dealing with him inappropriately.

I have to say, it does depend on personality as well I think as my friends DP is a loving, besotted dad underneath his depression, so he desperately wants to be the best dad he can.

btw, he takes St.John's Wort and swears by it, has your DH tried this?

I'd like to wish you the very best of luck with it all, and well done for coping with it all.

I really don't know how you are coping with this; I might make certain allowances for depression but to give you the silent treatment for 24 hrs at a time because you 'put leeks into the stirfry too soon..." - I think that type of thing is pretty disgusting actually and seems to me a form of control, not to say abuse, rather than a symptom of depression.

If you reread your posts it is clear you are 'living' on eggshells, afraid of upsetting him, making excuses for every aspect of his behaviour, apologising for things you have done that don't even warrant commenting on, let alone apologising for. And on top of all that you are doing 99.9 per cent of childcare yourself.

Sorry if this view ofends you but you did ask for opinions. Your dh needs to pull himself together and instead of using 'depression' as a cover-all excuse for really bad, childish and disrespectful behaviour, should get help (if he needs it) or else just start acting like a grown-up with responsibilities. Until he does he is making you and your ds suffer and the sooner he realises this, the better for all of you.

I found the last two posts particularly helpful. Thankyou.

Sparkle - I have been really worried that as our DS gets older he will witness his father behaving like this and it will send all sorts of bad messages. So far this always happens when DS is in bed asleep, but should it not, I will be brave and say to him that it's not on for him to behave like that in front of DS. One day perhaps I'll even be brave enough to say it's not ok to behave like that to me!

The other day I did actually say "That's only a small thing - you don't need to not talk to me over that" and he did actually (grudgingly) acknowledge it to be true. But it was very grudging.

Tamz - I have analysed our r/ship before and yes, you're right. His behaviour is emotionally abusive. The HV said so too. It's just pretty hard for me to acknowledge that about a man I love. I can say it is, but somehow I still don't think I've dealt with it properly, let alone taken real steps to make it stop.

Hi CM... just wanted to say sorry you are having to go through this... my ex had depression and it is so hard. Things got a lot better with ADs though. Would your husband consider them?
Also another thought, my daughter's father ( eg my ex ex) was close to useless with my dd when she was a baby. Used to ignore her and was generally unsupportive and seemingly unloving-- 6 years down the line he is a good dad who loves her enormously. People can change and his behaviour towards her as a baby ( which I think were basically a reaction to the onset of parenthood at a fairly young age) is something she will never be aware of.
Obviously hard for you to bear the brunt of the parenting though, do you get any extra support?

confusedmummy - how long have the periods been during your relationship & marriage when he is not depressed?
This is going to sound incredibly harsh, but it sounds to me like he is behaving exactly as he wants to and blaming everything on depression.
I have been depressed, was clinically diagnosed with event related depression when my husband left me. I took the anti-depressants for 18 months until I was ok to come off them. I still went to work & did everything for my two children because if I didn't no one else would. There was never any question of the doctor insisting that I was signed off work - they don't do that unless it is something you want.
I think you husband is taking the pi$$. I am terribly sorry to be so blunt about it, but it doesn't sound like depression to me, it sounds like he is being controlling & ensuring that the whole household revolves around him.
I really do feel for you, because my ex-husband was narcissistic & emotionally abusive. We were fine until the children came along & then he simply couldn't cope with not being the centre of attention anymore. Like you I took my marriage vows very seriously & stuck with it. Now I'm glad he had an affair because I am happier than I had been for years.

It seems to me that men and women handle depression differently. It's prob a massive generalisation but it seems women have to keep coping whilst men can withdraw more easily.

I have to agree with Bugsy2 - I don't think depression can be blamed for some of his behaviour, which sounds a bit more like jealousy of your DS and the attention he's getting. Sorry I can't help, as the only 2 cases I know of did end up with separation, in both instances because it was better for both the child and the parents to stop the constant battle for attention- the 'silent treatment' is a real killer also as if it's not tackled head-on it can turn into silences that last for months, because it's just such a great way of making your partner think about your feelings all the time, without ever being able to find out what the real reason is for the bad atmosphere. My parents divorced when I was 7 and all I've every felt about it was that they should have done so sooner - my mother's life would have been happier. And yes, she believed in marriage for life, too - but not to a man who made her life so hard.

bugsy - we've only been married since July 2004 and i think the longest we have gone without a 'flare-up' of this kind is about 3 months. they are often over as quickly as they start, but i find it incredibly wearing emotionally.

last time he said he was suicidal which really scared me. but he said he would never carry it through because he's a catholic too and ultimately wouldn't kill himself because of his faith.

at the moment it's all plain sailing so i feel weird talking about the bad times, but when we are in a bad time i am so scared and lost i can't really talk to anyone.

i have resolved to make him talk though. last time i did manage to get him to come out of the silence and partially explain his feelings and i think this helped him recover quicker.

but you are all right - he is incredibly picky (mostly over domestic arrangements like cleaning and cooking) and i find myself trying to do everything (even how you cut vegetables) just the way he does it to avoid conflict. i never really realised how controlling this was. why the hell would you care if someone cuts veg or hoovers differently to you? this side of it i really can't understand.