DH talking about suicide - Stately homes type thread

[NewYearBlues]

I'm a longstanding member, but I've namechanged for my DH's sake. He's asked me to post on his behalf.

Long and complex history so I'll try and give the broad strokes, but please ask questions if clarification is required, I'm not deliberately drip feeding.

DH's parents divorced when he was small, custody was given to his mother who is classic narcissist (textbook Toxic parent). She beat him and kept going even when he begged her to stop, played favourites with his siblings, let him take responsibility for his siblings' welfare (he was the eldest) despite only being 7 or 8, knowingly allowed him to be in unsupervised contact with dubious adults, had stand up rows with his DF on the doorstep, accused DF of all sorts.

As soon as he was legally able DH applied to the courts to go and live with his DF. It's taken many years but DH now admits that his DF was, in his own way, almost as toxic as his mother. For a long time DH idolised his father, but I suspect that was more from a need to have one of the adults in his life be worth looking up to, if that makes sense. His father is very right wing, very 'my way or the high way', mixed with a nice large dose of self-pity.

Dh and I have been together a long time now, nearly ten years. I have watched him overcome some incredibly strong programming to despair, to shout, to get physically violent with inanimate objects (walls and doors mainly).

After the birth of our first child and his mother arriving on our doorstep within 2 hours of coming home from hospital after a very traumatic birth (and a week in hospital) he finally found the strength to write a long letter to his mother explaining some of the ways she had hurt him, how he wanted the relationship to progress and that he wouldn't have any more contact with her and she wouldn't have any contact with his family until she had addressed the issues he had raised.

There followed a couple of letters and multiple phonecalls basically repeating the same old lies, delusions and self-pitying excuses he had heard before, plus accusations of faithlessness and many many iterations of what he owed her as a mother 'I love you, I always did my best for you' etc etc. All this at a time when he was trying to cope with a newborn and a wife with PTSD after a traumatic birth.

Issues with his father are ongoing. As his father is not quite in the same league of cruelty as his mother he has been loathe to employ the same tactics, especially as he has been brainwashed raised to belive that the good of the hive family (ie- his parents) supercedes his own needs. However he has been more calm and relaxed since he realised he wasn't going to have a sensible reply from his mother and was able to just go no-contact.

Over Christmas we were staying with his father and he agreed to see one of his siblings, because his father browbeat him into it stating that there was 'too much division' in the family. She started harassing him about their mother, despite him asking her not to, and it's stirred everything up again.

The whole thing is such a mess and so complicated that I am only giving the barest outlines here, but he has been brought up to believe he owes them everything for nothing in return and this morning, once again, I found him crying on the floor, wishing he could kill himself because he's so conflicted about what to do.

Luckily the strong sense of duty he feels towards family means that he won't kill himself because of his duty towards me and our baby, but he keeps trying to send us away to my parents because he doesn't want us to see him like that, because he's scared of re-enacting the parenting he received with our baby.

Please please reinforce to him for me that he owes this woman nothing. Just because she pushed him out of her vagina it does not mean that he has to tolerate her in any way shape or form now he's an adult, especially since even such glancing contact with her as seeing his sister who is still in touch sends him into a suicidal downward spiral.

Please tell him that the very fact that he's prioritising his child like this makes him a better parent than either of his.

I hope this made some sort of sense, though I don't think I've adequately described the intricacies or the dysfunction of his family, or how very damaged and hurt he is by it all.

I finally got him to apply for counselling, they finally came through with an appointment for him and he's had to cancel it because of a meeting at work he can't miss. He's literally floored by what he's going through and is terrified it'll be another 6 weeks before he gets another appointment.

And I don't know what to do to help him

Of course he doesn't have to see them - they sound vile. I expect he's been conditioned into being very very scared to stand up to them though.

Counselling sounds essential. Is there any chance you could afford some private sessions - he would have more control over the times then.

I'm in a similar situation with my DH. His parents are still together, and they beat DH regularly until he was 19. His self confidence is very low, he's recently had time off work with stress and depression as everything just caught up with him & hit him at once.

He's seen his GP and got prescribed antidepressants which are helping, and he's just finished a course of CBT which really helped.

He's still in contact with his parents but now recognises how toxic they really are. He considered cutting off contact but I think he feels that would give them too much power.

The sad thing is that he has confronted them about their behaviour. They admitted to it, then said 'but it's in the past now'. No it bloody well isn't for him, he's still feeling the effects at 35. DH has accepted that he'll never get the response he needs from them.

Sorry to hijack your thread, I just wanted to let you & your DH know that things can get better, whether or not he cuts off contact. Luckily your DH has you to support him, to worry about him and to make sure he gets the help he needs.

HTH

Sorry to hear all he has been through. He owes this woman nothing but feels FOG (fear, guilt, obligation) because of something called insecure bonding.

Explanation of insecure bonding:
weinholds.org/insecurely-bonded-children/

A good website about narcissism:
outofthefog.net/

Here is what I suggest.

1. Ring Samaritans. They are on 116123 and are very good. They listen, ask helpful questions and are good at what I would call constructive listening. They are not just for people who are at the point of attempting suicide. They are there for anyone who needs to talk.
2. Work is not the most important thing. Your DH is in mental distress. No meeting is more important than that. Can he reinstate the appointment and miss the meeting? However important it feels, work must come second to his health and wellbeing, end of.
3. Further to which, he could speak to his GP about being signed off to give him some breathing space.
4. If counselling is needed urgently you might want to look at other non-NHS options such as private therapists (try the BACP for a local one) who charge on a sliding scale - mine is charging me his lowest price point and didn't require proof of income. Mind may have something. You should be able to google for a list of local counselling organisations and ring round to see if any can help right now.
5. Make sure his GP knows how he is feeling and how urgent this is.
6. Read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. The stately homes thread has lots of other suggestions too.

I wish you both luck. To your DH: please try to remember this is not your fault. You didn't ask to be dealt a shitty hand. You are doing a good and brave thing by reaching out for help. You are not a bad person. You deserve to feel better.

I wish you both luck.

Also, you are right. He is a better parent. A much better one. He is not his mother. He is not his father. And while he can't change the past, he can have a better experience of the present.

Thank you, no, we haven't the money for private counselling, nor can we risk his chances of promotion at the moment. We've just bought our first house and I'm still trying to get my business up and running and paying its way. No job I could get would even make up the cost of childcare, so it has to be this way. A lot of pressure for DH as sole breadwinner.

I'll pass those links onto him, but we have read the Toxic Parents book, that's how we know MiL is classic narcissist (and FiL isn't far off!)

Thanks all so much

He will not reenact the parenting.
He sounds nothing like his parents.
I can understand his concerns, but he just wont.
Sometimes wrong programming can take nearly as long to unlearn.
He [and you] may find it helpful to have discreet notes dotted around the house, for quite some time, saying something like "DH's parenting will not be anything his parents", so he can read it over and over, and will eventually realise that it is true.

NewYearBlues I apologise if I sound blunt, but leaving him in this state is more of a risk to his chances of promotion than missing a meeting. It is also a risk to his health and safety, and I don't say that lightly. It's a myth that people who talk about suicide don't really feel suicidal, and I would strongly urge you to prioritise his health over work right now.

What you have to remember is that people with this kind of upbringing tend to catatrophise, and to assume people will be angry with them, and to fear letting others down. I know, from personal experience, that it is not possible to just soldier on and that, if a breakdown is on the horizon, you have to look after yourself. And I also know from personal experience that people will always be far, far more understanding than you expect.

Your DH is probably petrified of letting people down. His employers presumably do not expect him to be a robot. Sometimes people get ill. I understand that you feel he has to be seen to put in 100% at work but I would urge you not to let him do that at the expense of attending to what sounds like a brewing mental health crisis. It is better that he gets help now while he is in control of the situation. I didn't; and as a result I bailed on work, and let a lot of people down, at very short notice. I learned two things from that: 1. it's better to get help when you know you need it, because the need doesn't go away, and 2. most people are human and will understand.

His employers wouldn't expect him to soldier on if he had, say, cancer or diabetes. They may well be more understanding than you think. Does he have a manager he can talk to and say something general about how there are issues in the family which are causing stress, or something like that?

I want him to go to the gp. He's the one prioritising work...
He did come home today saying that he had a long think about what he actually wants and that's to never see her again. It's probably the first time he's said what he wants in a calm and even way and disregarded what he 'ought' to want/do/think.

I will pass on your comments Jess. I've seen you on another thread recently and right you made a lot of sense there, so I'm inclined to trust your opinion here, too x

Should read
"DH's parenting will not be anything like his parents"

Please let me emphasise that I was in no way criticising you. Or him for that matter. But when you're in that dark hole it can be so very hard to put yourself first, or to think you have the right to put yourself first - because the very nature of those childhood experiences is that you struggle to separate your wants and needs from your obligations to the people around you.

Your DH doesn't ever have to see her again if he doesn't want to.

I am not crazy cat lady, but am her husband. I know exactly what your DH is going through and I have gone through very similar. Since I have taken antidepressants and CBT, things have gotten better and I recognise that with the support of my wife, I have gotten stronger. As for my parents, I have for me began to realise how toxic they are and have told them so. Seeing as they have high standings in their community both when working and retired they are very scared me saying anything will damage that. All I can say that talking to a therapist for me helped. They talked through a plethera of issues. I took 2 or 3 attempts to find the right help, but when I did, things seam to be straighter in my head. I feel I am coming out through the other side and, but getting the help for me at the right time was very important both physically and mentally not only for me, but also for my family as we both need to stay strong for each other. Sounds like he would be a great father, and I guess listening to people that matter the most including yourself and your son/daughter (When they are old enough to communicate) will ensure he is always working in your best interests. People like my parents were very controlling, manipulating, abusive and did not only listen to me, but beat me into submission, till I did what they wanted. My parents priortised for there own agenda and needs and of course my sibling. By prioritising, through listening and working in the best interest of your family, shows you will never be likeyour mother or father. For me trusting my wife in giving me her opinion regarding the best interest for my family and that I was doing the right thing was invaluable as well as recgonising my issue was to big for me to handle on my own. I love her so much and would not know what to do without her and feel although I may have rocky times again, I know I can always count on her (and our pets) just as she can count on me. I hope you pull through this. You sound like loving, caring parents and a strong couple. Best of wishes