Gaslighting; do the people doing it realise that they. are?

[AppearingDignified]

I have a bit of a toxic mother. We don't live in the same country so our relationship is manageable. I cope by accepting her historical bad behaviour to me (never my brother) as her life has turned out badly and she really does love my children.

What interests me is that, after some wine, she gets brave enough to try to drop little lines in about how I remember the past all wrong and have rewritten it to make her look bad. My oldest friends lived through my teenage years and twenties with me and support my memory of her jealousy and favoring of my dear brother.

My DH thinks that she has to say things like that to maintain her illusion that it is all still my fault but I don't understand - does she know how badly she treated me consciously or is she in deep denial?

It is possible, by keep repeating the same lie to yourself over and over again, that you can kid yourself it actually happened that way. It's a coping mechanism ... not always malicious. However, in your case, I'd say it was almost certainly a continuation of the original emotional abuse.

My mother does something similar (or did when I used to try to discuss the past with her - I don't bother anymore.

There's an old truism about how people remember their experiences and not their behaviour. In my mother's case, she is so wrapped up in 'poor me' that I do honestly think she believes her own lies and her own internal image doesn't enable her to see the bitch that she is .

For me, the key to coping with this has been to not get caught up in discussions with her about the past - just walk away calmly if she starts. Then there's no opportunity to gaslight your thoughts as they're all your own.

I think there is a strong element of what yellow said in that their own internal image allows them to view all their actions and interactions in a self glorifying light. However, when gaslighting involves telling out and out lies then yes I think they are aware of what they're doing.

In confrontations over the years, she just flatly refuses to remember slights to me. We never discuss the biggest one as, if we did there would be no turning back (she slept with my boyfriend during my parents' divorce, when I was 15 and not sleeping with him).

After I had my children, we saw each other more regularly (annually) but I had to stay. I tried to tell how hard it was for me but I was trying for the children's sakes but that resulted in tears and not speaking to me for 2 days. I then resolved to just take the good. She has also appeared to mellow with age towards me. However, she is still jealous and let slip over christmas that I'm "only confident and hold opinions because I had been lucky in life and, when my life turns, I'll understand how fate takes away your security". Her and her husband have made some dreadful financial decisions over the past decade. Anyway, I was curious if I'm dealing with denial or maliciousness.

malice not maliciousness!

Malice... She seems to delight in bringing you down. That baloney about 'fate takes away security' sounds like 'mark my words.. it'll all end in tears...' Miserable cow.

Yep. She has always loved/ hated me with equal measure but as she had a very, very tough upbringing I think she is just jealous that my life has appeared to be easier than hers.

OK, so now I just think she is just miserable.

She slept with your boyfriend.

Christ. She sounds awful.

You don't gave to have a relationship with her at all you know. She doesn't have a right to a piece of you.

Miserable, resentful, blames others, jealous, petty .... A lot of bullies seem have those things in common.

It's Ok, I just walk away when she tries something now. No-one is all good nor are they all bad. She's a fantastic cook!

Hitler was nice to his dog apparently. All the same, it doesn't matter what redeeming qualities she may have, just always keep in mind you have a choice. You don't have to put up with her.

I know, thanks Chub. It is in the back of my mind.

She is only emboldened by drink to discuss this and try and put a spin on it to put herself in a better light. I do think she is consciously trying to minimise and deflect blame. It sounds as though you have her sussed and are strong enough not to be under her influence. I might still keep an eye on how she acts with your children even if she professes to love them.

As far as admitting the past goes, I wouldn't hold your breath that she'll recant at any point. All she has to do is stoutly deny or claim you misremember. You could have video testimony from your friends and your mother would still challenge it. It suits her to rewrite history.