So it's not all in my head then:( (long)

[MerlotforOne]

Can't quite believe I'm writing this, but need to get it written down before I minimise it again.
This morning, DH and I both a bit tired, DS (3) acting up a bit. DH offered to take DS and dog for a walk so I could get some peace. DS was being difficult about getting his coat on and DH was acting as though his temper was getting strained. He muttered 'I don't work hard all week to come home to this!' And then pinned DS on the stone floor and wrestled him into his coat. DS was sobbing and I wanted to comfort him, bu DH snarled t me to go upstairs and let him get on with it. I would normally retreat at this point so as not to provoke him, but today I decided not to and stood m ground.

He asked me again to go and I said if he was upset he should take the dog out and clear his head, and leave DS with me. He said 'you really don't want to push me just now' and I asked why he was threatening me? He walked over and shoved me really hard through the doorway into the next room and onto the floor. DS saw this and ran over to me. We both somehow ended up upstairs and DH followed us up and stood there saying I was over-reacting as it was only a shove had provoked him so i deserved the shove.

I was crying and DS was upset and brought me his muslin and dummy . I refused to let DH touch me and he told me again I was overreacting and denied the comment about me deserving it, said I had made that up. He then took DS and went for the walk. I haven't been able to send being in the same room all day, but daren't leave in case he gets really angry and does something worse.

He has only physically assaulted me once before, 8 years ago on holiday, and was so drunk at that time that he passed out and claimed no memory of it. He can be grumpy and I feel I walk on eggshells and that I have to justify myself a lot. Since the incident 8 years ago, I've always backed down before he lost his temper, and fooled myself that he'd changed, but I discovered mumsnet 6m ago and have been reading a lot on this board and feeling increasingly uneasy that quite a lot f it applied to me.

He is not at all financially controlling, but was very jealous and quite controlling of my social life (back when I had one) and can be quite argumentative after a drink (not that he drinks much these days). He can also be loving and affectionate and we have long periods of time where everything seems fine, but I've been excusing his behaviour for a very long time and now there are really no excuses left.

Don't know what to do really. Thoroughly miserable and very confused.

Aaaahh Merlot -hugs being sent. I can see from your message that you want to believe him, see him and listen to his apologies and hope they are real. I have no doubt that he is sincere and is totally distraught by his actions and I honestly think he believes himself that this will never happen again and this is because he has had the bigget kick up his arse he is ever likely to have. What can be more devastating than losing your wife, your son, the family life you have, the holidays, the friends, the comfort of the home, the normality of a meal and glass of wine together at the end of a hard day at work??? Not to mention the explanation he is going to have to give ...She left because I am a complete prick (doubt it would have that spin but will probably be ammended to "we hadn't been getting on for some time...ect" So yes I do believe every word he says the crux is will that feeling last for him??? Will he retuen to being a moody bully by March?? Would he be prepared to go for counselling together to discuss his moods and the walking on eggshells - always a very good indication of how serious they are, you'll see the look of dread cross his face when you mention it if he's not that comitted. Again only you know how bad your life has been and how it could return to that quite easily, do you want that for you and your son??? I know It's very easy for all of us to give you the advice to leave, report and never look back but we aren't in it.. however, don't get me wrong and before I get lynched the advice everyone has given is the best advice and exactly what you should do but my point is I don't think you'll do it as you have emotions, feelings, memories and a beautiful ds tied up in this and we don't. So my advice if you cant do the above and want to believe him make sure that the kick up the arse he's had is severe enough to last a lifetime or you'll be back on Mumsnet by July and wondering how you can get your parents involved again. I'd also wait a week and see if his outlook changes cos past experience tells me there will be some anger and blame to come your way yet and again this will give you a good indication of if he really is going to change and truly understands how bad his behaviour is. Keep in touch...x

All brilliant advice here ^^ when you've been manipulated by him for 8 years of course it is risky to trust that you won't deprioritise yourself when you see him again, and of course the telephone conversations would put you back into that position, almost like a system which you've been in for so long that you click back into the role.
I am no DV expert but I occasionally weigh in on these threads (when I can face it) because I lost a very well-educated, beautiful, successful, erudite friend of mine to DV. It was only the second time he had attacked her.
Imagine how differently things would have worked out if your head had hit a table corner when he shoved you? Your husband is reckless as to your safety and to the safety of your child. On that basis I think you know that you need to report this to the police: would you ever feel comfortable leaving your child alone with this man? Reporting to the police would also give him access to resources to sort his head out.
I think the 6 months idea is a stroke of genius if you feel unable to make a decision now. In that time as NicknameTaken has said I strongly suspect that he'll show his true colours once more.

it took him 2 days to realise you'd gone? That he'd blown it, that he'd hurt his son and his wife?

2 days?

Math is right, as are those that say that he used those 2 days to manufacture that hurt, that fake remorse to get you, and the son he pinned to the floor back under his control.

Go for the jugular OP, don't let him anywhere near you OR his son. He is a VERY dangerous man.

Report him. Please?

Learn this phrase and repeat whenever that vile bully speaks to you:

"Talk to the Laywer"

My ex kicked me in the belly while I was PG, he isolated me from life, totally for months at a time, threatened me, pulled my hair out in clumps, held me on the floor and bashed my head on the ceramic tiles, while my ds watched. Never ONCE did he touch our son. Not even close.

Your H is a monster. Please speed reas Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft as a matter of urgency.

We all understand how you are feeling - how you want to make it right, why you want to listen to him, why you want to believe he realises the error of his ways and believe he wont do it again. We understand that it was 8 years ago that he last physically assaulted you and that your brain is saying -- 'Are you really going to leave because of something he's done twice and one time was 8 years ago? - He's sorry, he's upset - he wont do it again'. We understand.

However, we know that's not how it really is :(

Of course he cried. Of course it's about him. Of course he's signing off xxx - he knows you, he knows what he needs to do and say to win you back.

He will do it again.

He will do it to DS more as he grows, answers back (as all children do!!) and you will have to step in more - risking him attacking you again.

You can't let DS grow up in that environment.

You can't let DS grow up to be his father, to scare his wife and children - your grandchildren.

As much as I wish it weren't true he is NOT the exception to the rule

Read up on it, read the Bancroft book before you agree to meet with him at least.

I'm not sure if I just thought it before or actually posted it - but your parents are lovely. Your Dad's response was great. But - them telling you not to rush into things isn't helping. Of course they don't want you to be hurt, but they also want everything as it was before and your life to be the one you had planned... it is to easy to say 'Oh it was only the once, you aren't hurt. He's sorry - give him a chance' because you want it to be right, you want it to be good - sadly wanting isn't enough :(

I found myself managing his emotional state

You are a very generous, empathetic, and kind-hearted woman.
How much generosity, empathy, and kindness did he display in that phone call towards you and your feelings?

Happy - I think one of the hardest things is that Merlot doesn't see her H as being like your Ex. We are all pretty sure he will get there, as that is the pattern, but when you love someone it's hard to imagine them turning into a monster like that :(

What hotDAMN says.
I've remembered the Bancroft thing- 'the victim' and 'mr sensitive' crossed with 'the demand man' was mine. If you're being expected to manage his emotions after HE pushed YOU then yours sounds similar!

Merlot - please re read your OP. Your H said 'I don't work hard all week to come home to this' Your DS is 3, he was being a PITA about putting his coat on

Beware of that maternal instinct. It was the right instinct when it kicked in to protect your child, and again when you were so moved at the little fellow trying to comfort you (what a total sweetie!). But now the bastard your H is pulling the little-boy-lost card so you feel all maternal and protective towards him. That's ludicrous and, in the circumstances, highly offensive. The whole incident started with him maltreating a child. How DARE he hijack sympathy that should be for the real child, not the oh-so-damaged can't-help-it ADULT? Pah.

Just wanted to say you are doing brilliantly OP and I wish you all the very best for you and your DS. I am so pleased you have parents who are supporting you and all of Mumsnet too

I was actually saying Chipping that her H is WORSE.

And yes, he WILL escalate. he WILL HURT YOU BOTH AGAIN AND MORE.

No decent person pins down a 3yo, not ever.

I agree with Annie, the maternal instincts are bang on, Merlot. Your need to protect your child has led you both to safety. I worry that your parents are not taking this as seriously as they ought to, the don't make any irreversible decisions thing? Is that the bit about reporting him? Is that what they are referring to? Protecting HIS professional standing over the safety of both their daughter and their grandson. Why is HIS position more important than either or both of you?

He needs to be reported, he really does. The chances of him being brought to book are fairly rare anyway, he will lie through his teeth and do and say everything to discredit you.

Take advice, get yourself informed and educated on your FULL position. THEN think about what FEELS RIGHT AND JUST to do.

Then think and think some more.

There are NO SUCH THINGS as irreversible decisions. You can choose, decide and change your mind about whatever you like, whenever you like.

I'm not setting out to demonise this man, he has done that himself, just that Merlot can't quite get her head around that. I understand, it's a horrible realisation, I remember it well.

Allow your brain to think Merlot, allow yourself to feel. You are safe now, no-one can hurt you. You have a right to be shocked, sad, devastated, appalled, horrified, scared. You have a right to be angry. That will come next.

The saddest thing in the world is to lose someone, you lost the person you thought you knew. You are married to a stranger. You have no idea of what he can and will do to win.

As someone said upthread, this is not a game, and it's not a game that you can ever win. Don't get involved, don't engage and never, ever EVER try to negotiate. There is literally no point, he will NEVER see your position as one he needs to adopt/support or understand.

What you need now is a skipful of BLACK AND WHITE thinking. His behaviour is UNACCEPTABLE. You need to stay away from him until the adrenaline has left your system and your thoughts come more clearly. You need to wean yourself off his addictive power/praise mindfuckery. You need to strip all this back to basics, keep it all really simple. He has overstepped the mark, he has broken a taboo. There IS no going back. You have to assume that he will never change, he doesn't want to, there is nothing in it for him to change.

IF he changed, he would lose control of you, power over you and the right to strike fear into you and your son's heart. No man like this will give up that right. his arrogance is more important than your equality, or that of your son.

I'm sorry, there really IS no resolution that YOU can effect, this is not about you at all, it is ALL him and his choice. You need to leave him to that choice.

In his book, Lundy Bancroft talks about what it takes for an abuser to change.
what are the chances that he will become normal.

What an abuser needs to change is to LOSE EVERYTHING, he needs to lose his family, his parents, siblings, all his friends, his colleagues, every soul that he has ever known needs to communicate with him that his behaviour is so heinous that they will have nothing to do with him. In this case he'd have to lose his livelihood too, as it is central to his ego.

Only then, when he is stripped of all standing, only then, it may cross his mind that perhaps he is on a path that is not entirely correct. He will only then consider that he might have to look into changing.

FWIW, I saw the 'product' of 6m ADAPT course, to prevent DV. I spoke at the conference in the morning. He spoke in the afternoon.

I saw this bloke, a spokesman for the organisation, show off talk about himself, and his experiences. Not once did he take responsibility for the abuse of his wife and children. He minimised it, blamed her and denied most of his involvement. And HE was the mentor, the shining beacon for other abusive men to learn from. It was all I could do not to cry there and then, but I knew I was being watched by the audience.

His speech was met with silence from the audience. I got applause.

No-one fell for his BS, and I was utterly depressed and devastated that this was the best that they had. I had hoped that money being spent in trying to help perpetrators (thousands of pounds, £6,000 IIRC, per course per abuser) would go some way to stopping this needless violence, upset and harm. But no, I have to sit and see the total waste of all the wonderful SS funding they get per perpetrator capita, when our charity to provide a free DV support group has to beg, bow and scrape to find the £5,000 a year it costs to run a weekly group.

Apologies for the length. I know you may not be ready for much of this, but I'm trying to help you short cut this stuff a little, because I want you and a gorgeous tiny 3yo to be as safe and happy and free as I am with my now hulking great 7yo.

Please understand that I am happier and healthier than I have ever been in my life, if there is any positive to this, it's that the abuse forced me to look at may aspects of my life and make changes, all of which have transformed my existence into a joyous, happy and wonderful life I literally had no idea could ever be possible.

I want all that for you.

Ahhh,

Damash has about summed up where I'm at at the moment. We have talked at length, face to face today. He has (finally) faced up to the severity of this. We have identified where he went off the rails (once upon a time this was a good relationship). He has acknowledged that this isn't a one off event in an otherwise strong marriage, that this was a symptom of a very severely broken marriage, that his rampant ego and anger issues caused him to terrify and hurt his wife and son.

He's frankly a bit hysterical at the moment. I feel icily calm. I've sent him off home. We've agreed that HE has to tell his boss, Occ health, his GP, his mother and his Buddhist teacher, and deal with the consequences. He has to negotiate with work that he'll drop down to a lower pressure, lower status role, and if they won't let him he'll have to resign (if he doesn't get booted out when all this comes to light). We will both get professional advice on parenting.

I'm staying put for he time being. I've told him the truth, that I do love him, but that's not enough to make a relationship work, that the trust and respect have been broken and will take months if not years to repair, if indeed they can be. That I'll never forget what has happened. I'm going to see my GP and also get some counselling myself in order to explore why my boundaries in this relationship are so poor and why I've kept quiet when I should have spoken out before it reached this point.

I do think we may be able to sort this out (cringes in anticipation of flaming), but I'm waiting to see if he follows through on all his promises before I consider going back. If we do get through this, our marriage will be fundamentally changed.

My parents have said they'll always drop everything and come and get me if I need them to. I have done some research in the last 3 days and know that I would be able to provide a comfortable life for me and DS as a single parent. It feels as though the power dynamic has shifted and I feel really strong.

Have had a couple of glasses of Merlot, so apologies for being verbose. Thanks for all your support and advice and my apologies to those of you railing at the computer at my failure to disengage.

To clarify, by 'staying put', I mean I'm staying at my parents house.

I'm very, very glad you are staying at your parents house, Merlot. This is absolutely the right decision.

I find this comment interesting this was a symptom of a very severely broken marriage - were these your words, or his? Why is the marriage to blame for his violence? As he assaulted your son as well, should we also say the family is severely broken?

Or would it be more accurate to say that you, and your son, are the victims of an abuser and that what is severely broken is that person? Why will you be getting professional advice on parenting? It seems to me you have done a fantastic job in the last few days - you have removed your son from the risk of harm. Permanently. That's your job. (Equally your own parents have been fantastic as well).

You are not to blame. This is not a problem for you to solve together. Does he understand why he sought to minimise it when it happened?

Keep looking after yourself and ds first and foremost - and well done on standing your ground. Keep safe, keep talking, think about the Freedom Programme.

Yes I thought damash made excellent points.

Merlot, I hope you can hang on to the 'icy calm' feeling; that strength will be needed, especially once the drama has passed. Dealing with the mundanity of being on your own (despite your parents), your DH's attempts to minimise and justify will require strength and resolve.

I think you're brave and insightful to realise that you need counselling too, as you say, to see where your boundaries were.
Others have recommended the Bundy book. I found this helpful.

You say the power dynamic has shifted and it may have done. But I wouldn't expect DH to meekly fall in with the new regime. Be careful.

Please stay away from him physically and expect this to be long term rather than short.

Establish ground rules for communication. No more of those ridiculous phone calls where you hold his hand... Texts can be used to alert that an email has been sent. Communication can be by email after the alerting text.

Read 'Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men' by Lundy Bancroft.
There is another title 'Should I Stay or Should I Go?' by the same author.
Read the first title mentioned before the second so you will know what you are up against.
Hint -- this isn't about stress at work or his Buddhism needing a little fine tuning.

Get a lot of counselling for yourself. You will know it is working and that you are emerging into the light when you realise you deserve much more than this man and you don't need a relationship with him.
I hate to skip to the end and ruin the story for you but if you do the counselling right this is how the narrative will conclude. It is only at that point that you will be able to make a strong decision about him.

Hi Tribpot,

That was my phrase, not his, he had kept saying over the past couple of days what a great team we were, how strong we are together, and amongst many other truths I said today, I pointed out that this sort of thing doesn't happen in good, strong relationships.

He has admitted that he is severely broken and identified some of the likely causes. I have made it clear that this is his problem to fix.

I have been unhappy for months now and been unable to put my finger on it, but I've been aware that I've been snappy and occasionally shouty with DS and that I've felt ashamed of that. For his sake I'd like to learn some more positive ways of dealing with him when he's being a typical difficult 3yr old. I'm gong o look for books/websites on positive parenting (been looking on the boards here for suggestions) an if that doesn't work I'll seek help.

I'm not hiding anything for he sake of my ego or DH's anymore. What matters now is recognising the damage to my DS and putting it right.

I am also worried as Tripbot is by the suggestion that this is about the dynamics of your relationship and the implication that you contributed to it, same goes for the implication that you can help mend it, solve it, fix it, etc.

No progress can be made until your H acknowledges that this was him, alone, and only him, and that he would do this to any woman or children who had the misfortune to be involved with him. In other words, he is the one with the problem.

Regarding counselling, would Relate be useful for me as an individual, or should I really be looking at specialist DV counselling?

Merlot your reactions to your ds being a typical 3-year old may have been fear about what your DH might do in response. Go easy on yourself and see if things improve now you're free of the fear. Be kind to yourself.

amongst many other truths I said today, I pointed out that this sort of thing doesn't happen in good, strong relationships.

It doesn't happen in strong relationships because when a relationship involves a man who has it in him to do something like this it can't ever be strong or function well. I think you have attached the wrong cart to the horse.

There is no context to this in the sense that it happened because the relationship hadn't been all that it could be. The relationship that you wanted has been DOA because he has been seeking and getting something out of it that isn't what normal people seek from a relationship. He is in it for the power trip.

Specialist DV counselling. The best you can get. Forget Relate.

He has acknowledged that math, but as I say it's early days and he's still pretty hysterical, so I'm reserving judgement.

He's always talked a good game, I'm going to wait and see if he follows through. In the meantime I need to acknowledge that I've been enabling him and do what it takes to make sure I never fall back into those behaviour patterns.

Cross-posted, was replying to 23:04:02 post.