any advice/support for how I can manange til I can get out? is it really over? LONG

[theansweris42]

This is very long am sorry. Also I am in Sydney so posting now but might not be able to come back for a while. DP (not so D any more I think) and I 20 years ago in 1993, lived in diff cities back then so we dated but it was a bit on and off. However, we have been in a relationship since 1997.
We have lived in London, Europe, travelled extensively. He is in IT and his job therefore allows us to move. I?ve always worked in the various places. He spilt with me in 2002 but then got a cancer diagnosis and had long treatment etc and I was supporting him. We got back together, having not really spent significant time apart, in 2004.
I have an MSc and the makings of a good career but my CV is a bit patchy as we have enjoyed living away and travelling so much. But I think I could find work at a reasonable level. Currently SAHM - we have two DSs, ages 3.5 and 2.3 .
DP?s finances are much more secure than mine in that he has investments (which might not be worth much I guess) savings and two London properties. We have always had separate finances and paid half and half of everything? even though he is the much higher earner, I?ve had OK salary too so it has not been an issue. He has not allowed me to be on the papers for the properties. When I?ve addressed it he says it is not needed as we will soon be getting a property together. Been saying that for years and it has not come off. He speaks as if I am a gold digger and after his cash (he doesn?t exactly say those phrases) and it ends up an argument ? he raises his voice and becomes angry. So in effect I?ve paid half the mortgage but this has been ?rent? really. DS1 born March 2009, my mat pay ran out c. Feb 2010 when I went back to work until DS2 was born ? went back to work really cos DP being huffy during the time (about 1 month) that he had to ?pay for me?. I can fight his attitude and argue but I just think with an attitude like that, what?s the point of discussing it? So with DS1 he never had to ?support? us as such.
Since 2007 we?ve been back and forth to Australia. DS1 born London, DS2 in Sydney. DS2 born Sept 2010. I did not work from Sept 2010 ? March 2012 (caring for home and boys).
On the latest trip, we returned after 18 months to the UK in Dec 2011 as we felt long term future not in Aus and so time to return to UK or Europe and settle. He was then unable to find a job. He was adamant that we had done the wrong thing and should return to Sydney. During this time I went back to work (reluctantly as boys small & Dp has money, but needs must) and paid all household bills and everything for the boys. I always have got their prams, cuts, stair gates, clothes etc etc.
As he was jobhunting I also paid for 3 days childcare. Then, when the jobhunt was not working, I was still not able to pull them out for him to look after, as he had started a loft conversion and the work was v disruptive ? DP said. Had it all been the other way round of course I would have had to manage around the work. Although this significant increase to house value will not benefit me directly, he says it is right that I paid this childcare as the boys will benefit from this money, eventually (when he dies??). Also of course he had the money to pay for this big work while I was working & paying childcare.
During this time the only dent he will have made in his savings will be his personal expenses and going out ? which he does not scrimp on. There were a few comments about (supposed to be ?jokes?) about me not giving him ?spends? as he had done to me after DS2 born ? by this he means the housekeeping. He then got a job offer in about June 2012 we felt we?d made our minds up then and returned to Sydney in Sept 2012. he has a job here on good money (not HUGE but good) and we have found a nice house to rent. Very expensive here though. I get some money each week but I have nothing extra to spend ? this is do-able ? but I know he has more. I have never been allowed to know his actual pay or the details of his finances. I have told him this makes us not really financially together and is not OK now we have DS1&2 and also that he will not plan for the future and this makes me worry etc
Due to managing on the one wage in 2012 and me having to pay for everything (bcos I ?had an income?) I accrued debts. I have money on a bank loan and on an interest free credit card ? interest will start in Feb. He knows about the debt but not the full amount as he will be angry. He has said, after a lot of pushing, that he will pay some back ?for me? (gggrrr) when finances sorted in new year. But will he? And even if he does ? no insight - he has also said he feels annoyed that I have debts after spending on fripperies (childcare, boys clothes, gas bill ? yes I did go for occasional meal with a friend).
I went to a solicitor and they said I would be entitled to half the house we lived in in London but not to savings etc. (even though I have used all mine for us to live and he, er, hasn?t) but I thought we might be able to work stuff out, I don?t know what I thought. I was aware that we have 2 DSs (DP is a nice Dad and interacts with them loads but not really any practical help and no help at night ever ever ? but I have enabled this! Am such an idiot)
So anyway the stuff about money (no support given with DS1 so mat pay and savings gone; minimum given with DS2 so savings gone; childcare and no contribution from him in 2011 so now debts), his sending me to Coventry for transgressions for years, his unreasonable outlook about spending (eg told me off for getting two little 10 quid raincoats. In England!), his inability to say he loves me, his criticism and put downs, his unsupportive attitude when I had PND after DS2 has finally led me to realise that I can?t make it better, I can?t make us happy and I can?t undo the silliness I have done allowing all this to happen. But I can try to make going forward positive. BUT I am here, in Australia, we can?t run two houses, I have no practical support. So I think we ?ll have to just manage for a couple of years and then return to UK. But we have I think spilt up. But we sit and eat our evening meal together, we chat, we have a glass of wine and watch a film. I feel so sad and also like I need closure but I cannot get out or get the ball rolling. I cannot and will not return immediately to UK (here since Sept only!)
I admit I am afraid of his moods and the black place they put me in, I would rather try and smooth things along given that we are in the same house by necessity. Also for the boys. DS1 sensitive and aware when things not good. We can get along for now because we have to.
But how do I manage my sad feelings so that I can survive this time? I went to counselling in London this year which was OK. He sort of agreed to go to Relate but then said could we not afford it ? but nights out and loft conversion affordable of course. Also how can I manage the conversations about money? I need him to balance out the money ? but the conversations always go awful ? I do mention it but I guess I do back off half way and agree to sort it out later ? as I always have e.g. ?we?ll get the next house together? ( at some unspecified date). So I get nowhere and it festers.
I think we both know we have spilt emotionally (he seems OK with this ? I feel sad ? I think I stil love the good bits) but it seems impossible practically. And I think part of me STILL thinks it might be OK ? so ideally I need to get away?but?.?? Any thougts would be so welcome to give me some clarity 9its not me is it?) and some hope?..I feel so sad and such a fool. I want to smile and enjoy my boys. I?m not depressed, but am feeling the effect of all this. Dp does have good points and he is unhappy too.

[dequoisagitil]

It'd be a good idea to be a bit sneaky and try to find evidence of his income if you can. For future reference, like.

[theansweris42]

No way I can ...

[theansweris42]

...I've tried. All is online and passwords, no bank statements etc

[Bluestocking]

I'm glad Christmas went well for your boys. Well done for pulling that off!
Don't feel like an idiot. It's so easy for an abusive partner to sucker the other half in, little by little. Posters on other threads have likened it to being a frog in a pan of cold water - if you put a frog in a pan of hot water, it would jump out straight away, but if the water is cold and the gas is lit under the pan and the water is heated ever so gently, the frog doesn't notice what's happening.
Would it be worth contacting the Family Dispute Resolution Service?

[theansweris42]

Thanks Bluestocking. The thing is we are not at a formal point of seperation, we have discussed that things are not going well, and that indeed we might not recover, but he feels that we just need to soldier on until we are more sorted with the practicalities. And he might be right.
In any case, although I have SAID it, I do not think he realises how serious I am about splitting.
I think the Dispute service is more about the way forward - and I don't think we can run two houses and so on...
Also, someone mentioned that in abusive situations couselling/mediation is not advised? I am not sure how he would react, for example, if he saw this thread. badly, am sure. I am only on here when he is not in.
And I have suggested Relate. I made an appointment for us with a nice counsellor and he said he would go, but backed out (on grounds of cost!). I do feel anxious when I imagine how a counselling appointment would go - I think he would be angry and say it was all my fault.
TBH I am no longer sure I want to even try Relate or similar. And I think we might have to wait until we leave Aus to actually seperate. Or, at least until I am working and have the childcare set up.

But maybe I could call them and see? Sorry...am literally thinking things through as I type - that's why MN is so helpful. I've been in a fog for a long time.

[theansweris42]

*separation I mean. Tsk to me.

[theansweris42]

Hey, but I insisted that this tenancy was in joint names. The agent said it would be easier if just in the working parter's name and DP wasn't bothered but I made a fuss and it's in both names - it's not really important I guess, but it was symbolic. So perhaps I am making some tiny progress

[Bluestocking]

Your insisting that the tenancy should be in both names definitely sounds like a step in the right direction.
You say he thinks you need to soldier on until you are more sorted with the practicalities? Can you explain what that means? Because from the outside what it looks like is a situation where he is happy to keep you on as unpaid childcare, while he improves his financial position - his two properties in London, his investments, whatever else he is doing with his largish salary - and that he's not remotely interested in your security.
I was thinking of FDR as a source of advice for you, so you can start to work out what your position actually is and how you can ensure that you come out of this in the strongest possible financial position. And that doesn't make you a gold-digger, just a parent who wants to secure her children's future.
I'm off to bed now - will check in again soon.

[theansweris42]

Yes. Scales from eyes indeed. Sleep well.

[mrslaughan]

I would get a 2nd legal opinion - Australian laws are very similar to NZ - aren't you his partner in common law - thereby entitled to half of everything if you split? unless you signed a pre-nup?

[theansweris42]

Nothing signed. I will get info. I guess when I talk about just staying in the same house until go back to UK, I mean partly for the practical/financial reasons (which bluestocking points out means a cheaper deal for him) but also bcos if I split with him here, he'll be angry & might make things harder...and I have no-one here so will be absolutely alone. Scared. I'll gather more info and keep thinking in these new ways. Thank you.

[Southwest]

Is there no way you can find out what he earns, I would have thought some snooping would be OK here (sorry everyone else) does he get those receipts out of cashpoints? any in his wallet or the rubbish?
can you phone his company and pretend to be job hunting?

is he intending that you 'own' either of the London properties? if not can you and the boys live in one and him in the other when you get back?
I agree with getting further advice does Australia have a CAB you can start with?
can you contact the CSA in the UK to find out how money is usually divided?

sounds like a difficult situation I feel for you
do you have any idea how long you will be in OZ for this time?

[BookieMonster]

Would you not be considered to be in a de facto partnership in Oz, in which case you have legal rights over the division of assets and maintenance.
see here
You need to see a family lawyer who has experience in a de facto split.

[theansweris42]

Well I know in UK law that there are no particular rights under common law. Solicitor there said he would think I'd get half if the house we lived in and maintenence. I will check in Aus, its probably similar. But, we have no property here so I'd get half of nothing. And life expensive here, there would be endless recrimination from him about paying maintenence and for his own household. I would have to work ft & live in a v small place and in area I don't know further out etc. All doable and I'm not the first, but I don't want to make life harder for me & DS 1&2.

[theansweris42]

*maintenance!

[theansweris42]

Yes Southwest he gets receipts if I find them I'll start keeping them. Companies often don't disclose even the ballpark figure for vacancies & anyway he is contractor & negotiates his own daily rate. I'll ask him again.

[theansweris42]

from googling and the link (thanks BookieMonster) it looks similar to what the UK lawyer said. Will make some calls this week. I don't know if I can really go for a split right now in Aus - argh. Why not?? I ask myself.
Thank you again for your posts.

[BranchingOut]

It sounds to me that the first step would be to find out exactly what your situation would be under Aus law. If it is not significantly better than what you would get in the UK, then plan to split when you go home.

In the meantime you can be planning. This is a long game. Every little bit of evidence you find, any documentation whatsoever, copy it and put it in a folder. Plus squirrel away even tiny bits of money -it will all add up.

Even his CV might be useful - you could then get an idea of what he might earn from those skills.

Can you take a friend or relative from the UK into your confidence? Then you might feel that you had some support to come back to.

[theansweris42]

Thanks Branching. As I said in OP, the thing is how to manage, mentally I suppose in the interim if we are to stay in same house etc

But one strategy can be the planning, yes. I will struggle with mood and I think with the anger I'm unable to express.

I've just now tried to talk over budget with him, he says due to high tax rate there's not much left after rent (v expensive) and food etc. But doesn't give a straight answer & though I believe be is worse off than in a London wage, I don't believe that he's potless once the bills are paid.

I've told some friends some of this but I always play it down, I think due to shame. I might show someone this thread.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[redvelvetpoppy]

There are a few of us here in Sydney, have you seen the Living Overseas thread - there is a meet up planned for 10th Feb if you're interested.

If you have been here less than 3m then I think you may be in a stronger position to return to the UK with your boys as it would be their habitual residence. What visa are you on if you don't mind me asking?

You can access free legal advice in Sydney, I may have some info lying around so will have a look & get back to you. You can access counselling for yourself if you see the GP & get a Mental health care plan, which gives you 6-10 sessions at $50 each ( Medicare will cover the other $150). Do you have private healthcare at all?

Sorry to hear you are going through this, I think it would be a good idea for you to confide in your friends so you feel less isolated & confused by his behaviour - which is definitely abusive. Am supposed to be cooking so will pop back later

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

Hey OP I'm not in Sydney but I'm a lawyer in Australia. I don't quite understand the details of your situation re how long you've spent in each country, but if you need reccs for legal advice or anything I'll see if I can help.