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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Trying again?

48 replies

BitOfACyclePath · 17/12/2012 22:02

I posted a few weeks ago but asked for thread to be removed due to too many personal details.

Basically my daughter was being violent to me. My husband went in to the living room while I calmed her down. Got her calm and she went in to the living room with me behind her. She walked towards my husband with her arm raised to hit him. I didn't see what happened next but the next thing I knew she was lying on the floor screaming.

Daughter says she was pushed by my husband. Husband says (and maintains) that she tripped over his feet.

I told him to get out the house. I took my daughter to A&E and they said she had soft tissue damage to her foot but couldn't say how it happened.

Social services got involved and came out to see me and my daughter. I was told not to let husband have contact with daughter which I have complied with.

3 weeks on myself and husband have had time to talk and sort things out between us. He has agreed to go on any course and take any action deemed necessary by social services to get our family back on track.

My daughter is having a hell of a time. She's missing her 'daddy' so much. She's waking in the night shouting for him, crys most days asking when he's coming home.

I phoned social work today to ask what steps I could take to have him back in the family home. They are coming out on Wednesday to talk to myself and my husband about everything.

Obviously if they say its my kids or my husband there is no contest my kids are my priority but I'm hoping that they can see what good parents we are (never had any involvement before) and let us be a family again.

Sorry for the epic post and not sure what I want people to say just wanted to get this off my chest.

OP posts:
NettleTea · 18/12/2012 09:44

I also remember the previous thread, and am pretty sure you mention other facts which made you sure that your husband had hurt her, rather than she made it up.
Do you have access to a healthcare advocate who can represent you with SS? surely your daughter has records from her time at CAMHs and there must be a specialist who is working with you?

bradywasmyfavouritewiseman · 18/12/2012 09:48

I think if he moves back you have to be a unit. There is no way I would automatically accept dh hurt our kids on purpose. I would be trying to figure it out.

I know my dd is very dramatic. I would weigh up what I know about both of them.

You know she doesn't always see things as they happen and yet your reaction was to believe her. Either you need to trust your dh to not hurt her or he needs to not move back.
If you trust he wouldn't hurt her, you need to be a united front. You need to support eachother not blame each other.

Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 09:54

My husband has said a few times that he can't cope with her disabilities. I struggle to cope too and I'm her Mum.

Her specialists are spinal, orthopaedic, physiotherapy, speech and language, geneticist, occupational therapist so no behaviour or general specialist.

I assume there will be records from CAMHS that social services will be able to access? That documents her previous violent behaviour.

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Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 09:56

We have talked extensively over the last 3 weeks. We are going back in to this stronger and more united than ever. This is not being taken lightly j can assure you.

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Offred · 18/12/2012 10:03

I cannot believe that social services didn't step in to provide you with some support when she broke your jaw! That one event surely demonstrates that things are not working the way they are and it is unacceptable that all the rest of you have to live with the threat of such extreme violence and with no support

Offred · 18/12/2012 10:05

I think the services have cruelly neglected your family and especially your dd by washing their hands of her behavioural problems until things have got to this stage.

bradywasmyfavouritewiseman · 18/12/2012 10:05

Why did SS want him away from her when there is a clear documentation of her violence and reality issues?

what did they say when you told them her didn't and that this has happened before?

Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 10:14

That what it feels like to me that they have washed their hands of us.

That's the thing, when I spoke to social services yesterday about the possibility of my husband returning home they asked if she had had any contact with my husband in the last 3 weeks. I replied no because you said I wasn't allowed to. She denied ever saying this. I'm not exactly filled with confidence about her coming out again.

They said they have to believe her. I have explained to them about how she is but they said that didn't matter and she needs to be believed.

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Offred · 18/12/2012 10:22

Get them to provide you with everything in writing from now on if they are giving you diktats and then denying it. Especially if you want contact to resume and dh to come home, make absolutely sure that is written down officially by them.

Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 10:25

I was going to ask to record the interview/chat tomorrow or take notes and get her to sign them as a true and accurate description of what was said. Are they allowed to refuse this?

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Offred · 18/12/2012 10:26

What do they have to say about the time dd broke your jaw?

Offred · 18/12/2012 10:30

I don't see why they should be but not sure what use recording may be. Getting them to providing you with an official letter each time they give you official advice about how to proceed detailing what they want you to do for reference is perfectly reasonable though and should be retained by them too in your case file I would imagine.

Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 10:32

They didn't say very much if I'm honest with you. I didn't go to hospital as at the time I didn't think it was that bad it was a month later on dental X-rays that it was picked up and I was fitted with a guard thing to pull my teeth and jaw back in to line. Social work brushed over it and I got the impression that they didn't believe my daughter had done it.

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Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 10:36

The recording/notes was so they can't deny saying something that they have. I will ask for official letter every single time but if that contradicts what was said in person/on phone then I'm kind of stuffed surely?

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Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 10:45

She was only 6 at the time of the jaw incident but the size of an 11 year old. I got the impression that they thought there was no way a 6 year old could do that.

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MsMommy · 18/12/2012 12:15

I think you have to understand that what you know and understand about your family is completely different to what Social Services know and understand about your family. They are alerted as a matter of course when children go to A&E and will become more involved based on the way you answer their questions. I think the soft tissue injury in her foot sounds more like a trip than a push. She would have other bruises or contusions if she had been pushed and hit the floor without breaking her fall. But Social Services' role is to protect themselves and the child and they have to respond to any suggestion that the child could be at risk. I am sure however that since your daughter is on their records that a meeting with them and your husband will sort it out. If you are clear on her history and that you believe him and he has no history of violence there should be no reason for them to continue to keep him separate from the family, although they may wish to supervise a visit with your husband and daughter first.
I think if you appeal to them for help. Insist you are all desperate for assistance and need coping mechanisms for everyone in the family to deal with her challenging behaviour then they should be more responsive. If necessary write a formal letter listing the situations you have had to cope with and how much pressure it is putting the family under and they will be forced to listen. Importantly her behaviour is also placing your son at risk and of course they also have a duty to protect him, so perhaps this will make them prick up their ears a bit more and lend some practical support.
Best of luck with it. A very hard situation for all involved.

Offred · 18/12/2012 14:13

It doesn't matter if it contradicts what was said, follow what is written not what is said.

MsMommy · 18/12/2012 14:24

I think you have to understand that what you know and understand about your family is completely different to what Social Services know and understand about your family. They are alerted as a matter of course when children go to A&E and will become more involved based on the way you answer their questions. I think the soft tissue injury in her foot sounds more like a trip than a push. She would have other bruises or contusions if she had been pushed and hit the floor without breaking her fall. But Social Services' role is to protect themselves and the child and they have to respond to any suggestion that the child could be at risk. I am sure however that since your daughter is on their records that a meeting with them and your husband will sort it out. If you are clear on her history and that you believe him and he has no history of violence there should be no reason for them to continue to keep him separate from the family, although they may wish to supervise a visit with your husband and daughter first.
I think if you appeal to them for help. Insist you are all desperate for assistance and need coping mechanisms for everyone in the family to deal with her challenging behaviour then they should be more responsive. If necessary write a formal letter listing the situations you have had to cope with and how much pressure it is putting the family under and they will be forced to listen. Importantly her behaviour is also placing your son at risk and of course they also have a duty to protect him, so perhaps this will make them prick up their ears a bit more and lend some practical support.
Best of luck with it. A very hard situation for all involved.

MsMommy · 18/12/2012 14:25

Oops sorry. Double post.

Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 14:27

Brilliant post Mommy thank you.

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MsMommy · 18/12/2012 14:33

The thing about needing to believe the child I would imagine is a direct response to the Jimmy Savile situation where clearly girls were making complaints which were dismissed. Social Services are just following the latest policy guidelines and covering their arses but in this case that is not in the best interests of your family.
Can you speak to / contact a specialist who has some experience / knowledge of the genetic issue your daughter has? Is there a support group for people whose children have this? I think you need a senior voice or expert who will speak up for you and make the SS listen to your needs. A letter from someone who can back up your description of your DDs behaviour and will support your position might make a difference?

MsMommy · 18/12/2012 14:35

So good I sent it twice! :)
Hope you can get this sorted very quickly. How sad and stressful for you all. :(

Original poster
BitOfACyclePath · 18/12/2012 14:40

No support group that I know of however we are part of Unique the rare chromosome disorder group. CAMHS know her behaviour better than anyone so I can ask them to do a report or letter for me.

Thank you Thanks we are all going through hell Sad

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