What can I call this sort of behaviour? Need a bit of help.

[StephaniePowers]

My father's speciality is to offer something lovely - and then when arranging it, to pretend that I am making some sort of outrageous demand on him. I'm sure more people do this than my father, and it must have a name.

He rang me specifically a few weeks ago to say 'I will come and stay so that you and dh can go away for a little holiday and I can spend time with my grandchild'. This is lovely and very welcome. Now I am trying to arrange dates so we can book something. That's not outrageous, is it? His responses have been really terse make it clear that I am demanding something from him and he will 'fit me in if he can but not to make it too long'.

He used to do this all the time, and it wasn't until I moved away that I realised that I was not a demanding, greedy, ungrateful person. It's like he would set up situations in this way just to give himself the opportunity to point out shortcomings that I wasn't even trying to have I used to find it extremely confusing as a teenager. He would offer to take me clothes shopping and talk about how much he'd spend, then later if I asked him about it he'd accuse me of being grasping and lazy and how he had to work for everything he bought himself. I was about 13 and clothes were such a sore point anyway as I had hardly any. I would be so upset as I would never ever have demanded anything like that from him, he had started the conversation in the first place.

I'm an adult now and I can see that things have got twisted (and the final outcome doesn't matter, I'm not in the least bothered by not having a weekend away) but can you reassure me that this isn't all that normal? It's so easy to go back to being a teenager when your parents slightly wrongfoot you (after some years of behaving quite normally, too).

Gosh! My ex used to do that! And I've only just realised... That's brought back memories.

He said when we moved he wanted to provide me with a dishwasher. I have never had an opinion of them either way, it was his 'thing'. Put the money aside and then went to have a look at some. Then it became a drama.... You want a dishwasher, do you realise how expensive they are? Hope you know they use lots more electricity. How on earth can you afford the tablets, are you sure you need a dishwasher?? Wtf?

Is it a type of 'gaslighting'? Making a statement and then later changing things around so that you doubt what was originally said? Maybe not.... I'm not very good at labels :)

Gaslighting

My ex did this too. In fact still doing it. I pray that he doesn't do it to my children!!

Or maybe it's just straight old-fashioned 'lying'? Casually making statements and promises because they sound good at the time - impressing others perhaps? - but with no intention of following through, so getting defensive/aggressive when reminded of the original promise.

I think you first of all need to accept that he will not be coming to look after the DC while you go away, so save yourself the effort of trying to arrange it.

Secondly, you need to change the script otherwise it will keep playing out the same way for the rest of his life. I'm assuming that he offers you things that you really want to keep you hanging on his hook. You must assume that he will NOT be following up on his promise otherwise you will be always feeling that what you want is just beyond your fingertips. When he offers something say something like "that's very thoughtful of you" and then don't mention it to him again. He will probably keep bringing up the offer to try and get you back on to his script, just keep in mind that he has no intention of actually delivering and be non-commital. Think of it as a toddler offering to fly you to the moon (because that's just as likely to actually happen), be polite but when he tries to lead you on to asking for specifics from him just say "there's no rush", or "whenever suits you".

Maybe a sort of gas lighting, then. He's not a sociopath (definitely). He never denies that he's offered, he fudges and gets vague and turns it around completely to make it into my needing something from him.

I'm an adult now and I don't technically need anything from him. I was a kid then and I did, it's making me very sad. We have been getting along so nicely these past few years (to the extent that if I talk about growing up with him, dh doesn't recognise the person I'm describing and finds it unsettling).

What can I say next? Typically I used to argue with him and that made things worse. He has already texted and left the ball in my court, but I don't particularly want to ask him for anything at this point. I feel really stuck. I'd like to just casually say 'ah well, never mind' but somehow it will be turned around on me whatever I say.

I knew some people would recognise this, it's a really horrible thing to be on the receiving end of Hope you're all well out of it (I thought I was!).

I left 8 years ago.... But now the kids are older we are tentatively re starting some contact. This might happen to them I realise. Dear god! Don't know what to do for the best

He's taking them out shopping for 'the day'... Can imagine him moaning about feeding them, paying the car park.... Having second thoughts now!

Witchety maybe you could prepare them for it?
I tried to explain to dh that we would have to prepare ds for disappointment where his grandfather's concerned...dh is so clueless though, he doesn't know this sort of unpleasantness.

It would be nice if there was one killer line that would say 'I don't care about this 'thing' you have offered and I'm not playing your silly game'.

I see it is a bit sad really.

Don't respond to the text - the ball is in your court, you don't believe it was a genuine offer, therefore will be doing nothing about it.

And as another poster said, next time he 'offers' something, treat it like a 2 yr old offering to fly you to the moon! Keep that analogy in your head, it really is a very good one. Don't engage in trying to make arrangements about that offer, just ignore it.

It appears it is a power play with him, draw you in and then push you out, keep you hooked and right where he wants you. I would disengage and keep this man at a bit of a distance, just outside your trusted circle of friends and family.

I know it's hard, as he is your father, but it appears his behaviour is causing you pain and you do not need to keep putting up with it.

I haven't responded. I think I'll try a healthy dose of pretending this has never happened.
He really has been a lot better these past years, but my sociopath brother has been staying with him and undoubtedly messing with his head, so with luck this is a blip.
What's upsetting me is my reaction and some difficult memories. I've been sitting on my own all morning and dh just brought me a bacon sandwich and a cup of tea, poor man he hasn't a clue really so I can't offload in his direction.

Good luck to those of you with ex-head-messing-partners and do warn your kids about them

..I'm no expert at all, but would guess there are shades of narcissism there? Not the full thing, but it comes across as his wanting to look good, and to think well of himself as a generous, loving dad. But when it comes to following through, some inherent selfishness comes to the fore and he finds he doesn't really want to spend the time or the money, because it's his, and he begrudges anyone having it (even though he offered).

I have heard of other cases where parents offer treats but never follow through, leading to constant disappointment.

All you can do is look at the facts to date and act accordingly.... Offers, doesn't follow through or is iffy, therefore treat all offers as fantasy. The flying to the moon analogy is a good one! It's sad though, and hard to deal with.

My mother used to do this sort of thing all the time. It used to drive me nuts. She's dead now, and was even doing it on her deathbed.I think it was her way of making sure I felt inadequate. She'd suggest something, like coming up to her house for Sunday lunch, then constantly moan about how much work she'd put in, how much waste there would be, and generally making me feel guilty. It was as if she wanted to rub in how lucky I was to have a mother such as she!!

She was non-assertive person with everyone else, and I think it was,her way of asserting herself-because it was the only way she could. It could get quite nasty, too, as I would lose my temper and retaliate.

I'm an only child-are you? I always felt completely inadequate as a result if her behaviour, and it's only recently that I've come to believe that an adult could behave like this in purpose. In other ways, she was generous, kind and the salt of the earth.

Do you think it's a mixture of self-aggrandisement (wanting to play the big man, the generous man and to be seen as that by everyone) and utter selfishness?

When he makes these offers, is there always an audience?

The thing is, you know his trick now. He can't fool you any more. As someone above said, treat it as something a child might say and say, "Oh OK, that would be nice" and never refer to it again.

When you say your brother's a sociopath, how does that reveal itself, do you mind my asking?

I also had an ex just like this. I suppose it is a sort of gaslighting, making you doubt what you THOUGHT was agreed.
The one time that really sticks out with exp was when trying for a baby. He said he'd give up drink for the pregnancy. I was astounded!! Really, I asked?!
Yes, he replied, if I couldn't drink for 9months I'd be pissed off if you were out all the time (hmm, no doubt about that!)
He then proceeded to drink even more than before, and when I ever mentioned HIS promise, he quoted his mates who 'all thought I was controlling, harsh, unfair, manipulative, demanding etc etc' for MAKING him stop drinking when it was ME who was pregnant.
There was NEVER an audience when he made his lavish promises, but always one when he was making out I was unreasonable and demanding about the things HE'D promised!

I don't know about narcissism. He's capable of breathtaking acts of selfish thought when stressed eg telling me that his mother was being exceptionally demanding and wouldn't leave him alone, when his father was in hospital dying, and she lived 30 miles away without transport and was beside herself with worry for the man she'd been married to for 54 years. Mostly I think he drifts along being fine most of the time but lately he's been stressed.

I'm not an only child but yes I am no stranger to those feelings of inadequacy. It's a constant battle, isn't it? I do win that one most of the time but those sneaking suspicions about oneself are always there for when you wake up at 4am with nothing else in particular to think about. Nothing to do but battle it, don't you find?

My brother - well who knows what a diagnosis would be, but he's funny and charming for about a day, then on day two moves on to antagonism, twisting everything you say, and finally becomes physically threatening by about day three. Growing up with the two of them was not really a barrel of laughs. We have never formalised this but we don't contact each other.

Funnily enough, recently he told me that he dislikes my brother intensely but obviously can't have nothing to do with him. This gave me a nice little knot of head-messing for a while - given how differently he treated us both as children - then I realised he was and is scared of my brother's bad opinion and the repercussions. I feel quite sorry for him (but still a bit 'wtf?' when I think of how he treated me and I was the one he claims to like!)

LadyWordy if that is you, then you know me, and I may bend your ear about this next week! (I'll try not to!!)

You sound amazingly intelligent and clear about both of them.
You can't do anything to get your DF to stop it, but obviously you've seen through him, you know it's not you, it's him, and you're making sure he doesn't mess up your DCs.
Short of going no-contact, that's the best outcome in a situation like this. Well done you!

Lesser that's incredibly generous of you, thank you. I was a bit of a puddle when I woke up this morning. I never know if I am doing the right thing or thinking of it all in the right way.
One day a therapist is going to get me onto her books and visualise a comfortable retirement

My abusive exh once took the children and me to an equine centre...it was DDs dream to do horseriding but |I had never been able to afford it. We went there, he measured her up for a hat, jacket, jodphurs, boots - the works - and then when were done he said 'there, now do you understand that it's too expensive?' She was heartbroken.
He also took us to a theme park when we lived in Germany, and when we got there he asked the kids what they wanted to go on...every time they suggested a ride he walked the other way. We spent all day doing this, went on nothing, and went home. All to teach them a 'lesson' about I want doesn't get! he was a pig.

Oh my god. I am agog
Your poor dd

NewPatches that's appalling.

StephanieP I can well imagine that growing up was far from a barrel of laughs. You do come across as level headed and highly intelligent, despite all - just as LesserOf said. Yet families are apt to throw a spanner in the works when you least expect it. Even the strongest would wobble then.

• what's this about bending my ear....

!

I would just assume his offers are empty. Say, "Thanks very much. How nice of you." next time he suggests something but just leave it at that. That way you're not going to be subjected to his ridiculous behaviour again.

My mother does this and it is so hurtful - offers to do something for us (look after dog, child, let us stay in her holiday let etc) then just before it happens or whilst it is happening becomes an absolute martyr and tells us how we are expecting too much of her, being unreasonable etc, it is mental and makes you feel like shit. I have cried and cried about this as it has spoiled many events (being made to feel like you are taking advantage of her). She also goes anyone telling everyone how much she is doing for other people all
The time.

I have learnt from this site she is a narcisist and fits the description to a T. She is now the LAST port of call for babysitting etc as it is not worth the martyrdom. I have fronted this out with her by email saying do not offer to do something for us then make me feel like shit about it (cited a lot of examples) she was very upset and blamed it on daughters mother hating, but she has got a bit better. Good luck OP