How to talk to Dp about the future? Long!

[FrustratedNovelist]

Hi all, I'm a long time lurker, I've never posted on relationships before.

My issue is really minor compared with some of the stories on here, so apologies for triviality! Having said that, this is really making me quite anxious.

Some background so as not to drip feed: I'm 30, so is my DP. We've been together for 3 and a half years, and living together for 2 and a half. My DP is not from the UK. He relocated here to be with me, leaving his mother, a single parent to him, back in his home country, to much guilt on his part and much sadness on hers. He is an only child. (Not sure how much the mother stuff is relevant here but might have some bearing on the problem? Not sure.)

My DP tells me he loves me, treats me well and makes me very happy. But we never really talk about the future. Except occasionally when we argue/have issues, and then it is in very vague terms.

For example, he always flies home for his birthday. He insists it is impossible not to. I would have loved to have spent his 30th with him, but we couldn't afford the flights for both of us, so just he went. I asked him, what about when we have a family, won't you want to spend significant days with them? And he got really stressed out, said how much pressure he is under being "split between" me and his mother, and we got onto Christmas, and he said maybe if we had children some years I would stay in the UK with them and he'd go to his Mum's. (This really upset me, perhaps unreasonably?) Anyway we only discuss marriage and children in these terms, in a VERY vague "maybe if, one day, waaaaaay in the future" kind of way. And his solutions to the issues of how to be a good son and have a family too are always ones which make me worried, it's hard to articulate but its as though he'd always think of us as not his "real" family because his real family is his mother.

I am getting to the point where I really want to get married and have a family. People around us who have been together much less time than us are getting engaged. I am really anxious that it is never going to happen. I have been happy to live together and coast along these last couple of years without really talking about it, but now I am 30 I feel like I need to know that he wants what I want. I know marriage isn't necessary, and I always thought it didn't matter, but have realised it is important to me.

My question is: how do I begin this conversation, and should I even say anything? I spoke to my DSIL, and she just said that it is sad and unromantic, and if he asks me to marry him after I've brought it up it will only be because I put pressure on him. I feel that is silly really, and it is only fair to be honest with him that my feelings are changing, ie I am no longer comfortable with living together and being boyfriend and girlfriend, and want more commitment. I also want to have a real conversation about how our family life will work in balance with his obligations to his mother. What should I say? Or am I wrong to bring it up at all?

Any advice? Thanks if you made it to the end- sorry for the epic!

I think it's realistic that he wants to finish his phd and presumably get an academic researcher or lecturer type job. It's hard work to try and juggle a wife and potential kids. It really is.
One of my phd students, his wife just gave birth in their home country. He's not seen the baby because he needs to get some work finished. He hopes to go home at Christmas.

Another phd student got married and unexpectedly got pregnant. She's due to complete next year but can't now due to mat leave etc. not a problem but it does delay the whole thing.

Having said that I think your biggest issues are the mum and the wanting to go home and live there. It may be that you can go with him for an extended period of time 3-6 months whilst he's there to 'collect data' perhaps and see if you can live there too? You say your job is flexible. So could you fathom doing it in his country?

No, love is not enough. I found that out the hard way. And I agree with the poster who says you don't discuss this because you don't want to hear each others' answers - I've been there. Hoping and assuming that because we loved each other we'd just work it out somehow. I'm sorry but it doesn't work that way.
If I were you I would be very worried about this - if you want children then you need to get a proper timeframe in place and nail down both of your expectations for the future. And whatever you do don't commit to emigrating if it's not what you want. Sure if you were 22 and could afford to try it out for a couple of years - but you aren't. And having a trial year or two when you are 33 could lead to being 35 and returning alone with no partner (and no kids)
I'm not trying to be a harbinger of doom but a lot of this is resonating with me.

It is better to know that he wants different things to you now rather than when you are heading closer to 40 and chances for babies gets slimmer.
He sounds like a lot of hard work and also if he's flying back and forth to Mum for his birthday and Christmas each year he is very connected and I bet he will go home when he is done with his Phd. It sounds like he really wants to marry and have his family near his mother.
Whoever said love is not is enough is right, it is hard to have you family thousands of miles from your own family. His mother is young and yet shows no desire to come to visit? Are you sure she even knows he is living with you? He goes home to her for major holidays It sounds like she thinks he's single
Do you really want to sit and twiddle your thumbs for three more years. It's up to you obviously, but I would look elsewhere.

Just another thought. You say he is from an English speaking country. How do you know that there will not be an arranged marriage waiting in the wings for him when his phd is completed?

If neither of you have spoken about your future, he might have avoided the topic because he knows his future but not yours, and might not realize that you have him featuring heavily in your future. Maybe he up till now has been content in the knowledge that you have eachother for now.
As a man he can father children until he is well into his sixties.

Thanks for all your replies and personal experiences. Had a terrible night. When we went to bed I tried to bring it up again and he said, "so we're still not ok, despite me saying we do want the same things?" it's like he remembers an entirely different conversation.

I do understand his point about money and the practicalities of having a baby. We are truly broke, he is on a PHD grant and I am on pittance from a publisher. I suppose I was naive that way. But my parents had me and my sister on nothing and didn't have a car, heating or anything. He speaks as though I am expecting to live in the lap of luxury and I'm really not. I'd feel better if he'd reassured me that once we could sort out finances, it WILL happen. Instead I got a load of angst about his mother. For him the issues are totally intertwined as I suspected.

I've been to live with her for three-four months already so we could get to know each other. He's said he doesn't want to live with her, or even in his home town, but he wants to be in the country, in case something happens, or alternatively if we live here he wants to make sure he has enough money to visit regularly, and fly back in any case of emergency. I do understand that and would want the same ability if it were my family/if we are in his country. So for him the family/money stuff is enmeshed.

No chance of an arranged marriage, that's not his culture at all.

I feel sick at the thought if giving up on us. I would be absolutely heartbroken and feel like I was throwing something amazing away. I can't imagine meeting someone else, being with someone else. But I understand all your points about bitterness and resentment. If I end up not being a mother I really don't know how I would cope. I long for a baby.

When he completes his PhD, has he something lined up - are there loads of jobs in his field?

What happens if he doesn't find the right job/career step for him after the PhD? Are you going to have to wait some more for the proposal, kids to follow? I suspect you would find you would have to wait again for this illusory perfect time where money & family circumstance is right.

And going back to an earlier thing I mentioned, if you did move to his country and had children there, would you be able to take them with you if there was a split? Or would you end up having to stay?

Yes, think very carefully about the whole issue of what happens to children/contact in the event of a split if you are living overseas.

I have only been on MN a few years, but have seen some very sad posts where a woman has had a baby living overseas, then the relationship has broken down and she is completely trapped in a country where she has no support, little means of earning a living etc.

Your work being flexible and enabling you to live abroad is one thing. Your life as a parent or working parent in another country (due to cultural differences, availability of childcare or finances) might be something completely different.

I just noticed your name, and saw your comment on your salary. Any chance for you to start maximizing on you earning potential, rather than wait for his?

I suspect that if you won the lottery and all financial considerations evaporated, you'd find he still wanted to wait a while. For mixed reasons.

I agree with a PP that the end of his PhD would be the start of job-hunting, saving, getting settled into the new role with too much workload at the moment... Delving through his reasons may feel like herding cats, but he is, in his own way, telling you that settling in the UK and starting a new family is not his top priority. Which it could be, even if not happening straightaway, there could be long-term plans in place with that as the end goal. As someone once said, you dint get to the top of Everest by "going for a walk and seeing where you end up."

"His country is English speaking" - am I the only one imagining that the OP is from Lands and her DP from Yorks? ;)

Seriously, OP, are there any visa restrictions for travel to and from his country, for your or him or his mother? Or even residency?

All his worries about stuff that might happen in the future might come true. But if he is not prepared to "feel the fear and do it anyway" then nothing will change, he has a home and companionship while he does his phd and will be able to start again at 35, 40, 45, whenever. Maybe by then his mother will be old, he will move to be near her and meet someone local. He isn't seriously trying to work out how to have a family in two countries or, if one, which one, and how that could be managed. He just thinks the whole thing will go away, or in fact, you will go away.

Forgive me for being vague in this post, I don't want to identify myself!

A man I know married a foreigner. He and his wife could never agree which country they would live in, and after a few years of back and forth he ended up living with his mother (who he wouldn't leave because she was alone apart from him) while his wife lived in her home country with their two small children, close to her parents.

The children are grown up now, and actually the man's wife has died although not before he grew to resent her and she him for all kinds of reasons.

Those children never knew a stable home with both parents, except for the odd week at Christmas or the summer holidays.
They thought in the beginning that love would conquer all obstacles, but actually in the end neither was prepared to make the sacrifice of their own life and family for the other.

The whole situation is very sad. Don't be like them OP.

Any update?