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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

AIBU to be concerned about overnight access without drug testing???

15 replies

twosquared · 01/12/2012 03:23

My soon to be ex husband hasn't had overnight access with our four small children since I kicked him out last Christmas. He wants it, and is making my life very difficult because he doesn't have it, and I am frankly feeling a little stuck. I would love some alternative thoughts on this situation.

You may want to get a cuppa for this..... I'll hit you with the background first. Its a long, involved story, will try to keep it to the issue at hand!!!!

My Ex

My ex was once a brilliant husband an amazing dad. We relocated, as expats, to a party town and things changed. To give you an idea, the guy who drove home from the hospital at 20 miles an hour with our precious new babies now refuses to even have car seats for them in his car. (He didn't have them as a kid so why should they, apparently I am just being hysterical requesting that he use car seats??).

When I kicked him out he had been having a mid life crisis (I think) for around 18 months. Going out at night, not telling me he would be out, not answering my calls, not coming home sometimes 'till after the kids were at school. In 14 months there were 41 nights were I sent text messages (on the nights I woke up finding him missing) asking him where the hell he was. I kicked him out several times and several times he returned crying about his use of drugs (he told me he took coke even to walk our dog). Often he would go back to bed during the day on weekends for a little sleep. He would go through weeks where he partied all the time and follow it up with weeks of staying at home. He was often grumpy and short tempered (yelled at the kids that he "fucking hated them") and for a year I yelled at him about his going out and my being left as a single mum. He wrote off our car just before Christmas in a single car accident, at 10 am in the morning which he didn't report for 48 hours (wonder why???). He then sent me emails around Christmas that he was going to go to a sort of rehab centre (he didn't).

He tells me he is totally clean now and the last 18 months of our marriage were just a blip. Apparently I am making a storm in a tea cup.

The Other Woman

Turned out he'd been 'partying' with another woman. He said he was going away to sort himself out at Christmas but actually ran off with her. I think the affair had been going on for some time. He moved in with her in April. She
=>is 35, single no kids
=> takes coke and smokes pot (at least she did), evidently she was one of his 'party' crowd
=>she she apparently got pregnant within two weeks of them running off together and had an abortion to please him 14 weeks later?? (he wrote in an affidavit that she sacrificed everything for his family and that the abortion has bonded them for ever thus she is a permanent fixture in his life).
=>has worked as a stripper,
=>has been arrested for drink driving (criminal record in the states) and
=>had her home repossessed (in the states).

=>While we were still married she was sleeping in my bed (showing a lot of concern for my children) whilst my children and I were away.

The drama with drug testing....

He did a test earlier in the year - 3 months after my lawyer first requested it (it takes three months to be clean for a test), didn't show me the result for a month after he did the test, then within three days of showing me the test result he had his girlfriend move in. Child psychologist then said no to overnights because too soon for the kids to have overnights with daddy plus other woman.

Then I heard on the grapevine he was back to partying again so I demanded fresh tests. He was furious saying that he had already passed a test and again he refused to do any tests, four months in he is now he is saying he will test again. HOWEVER he refuses that his girlfriend undertake tests despite previously signing an agreement that any new partner should be subjected to tests if the child psychologist required it (she did).

He swears blind that he is clean. That he doesn't even drink. Sadly I don't trust too much of what he tells me these days.

He is now arguing that he should have overnight access even if she doesn't do testing. His argument is that she shouldn't be dragged in to our divorce.

So, he wants overnights, these are my fears....

Risk of fall. My ex now lives in a four story house with balconies with railings like little ladders (i.e. would not pass UK regulations - I'm currently living as an expat so sadly I can't rely on UK building code). I have four young kids (all under seven), two have been diagnosed with ADHD. The two with ADHD like to climb, ANYTHING, and these balcony railings are great to climb. One and a half floors below the terrace off the living room is a concrete driveway. All windows at the front of the house have sliding doors with juliet balconies with the same railings. I have asked him to fit the inside of the balcony railings with perspex (so little feet can't climb the railing itself) but he has refused (saying "you can't tell me what to do"). He says they will just keep the balcony doors locked.

In addition to the balcony my ex now has five dogs in his house. One of these dogs was our family pet and we had to get medical attention for bites to one DC's face on three separate occasions (within 6 months). The two DC with ADHD don't understand that dogs are not teddy bears. Our old dog was nervous and responded to 'too much love' with a sharp bite. As their faces were pressed up against the dog, their face was the closest thing to bite. One of these bites caught my son above and below his eye (could have easily been his eyeball). I tried to rehouse the dog but my ex refused, saying he could train her. Kids with ADHD are slow to learn lessons so are unlikely not to 'love' the dog as they do.

My great fear is the kids go to his house, someone gets high in the evening and forgets to lock the doors to the balcony. Then they have a lie in in the morning whilst my kids get up at the crack of dawn. Thus the DC have the potential for unsupervised exposure to a potentially lethal balcony plus five dogs (one of whom is a proven biter).

I have suggested that my ex come to my house, where there are no serious risks, and I go stay with a friend. But he refuses (as I don't want his girlfriend in my home).

I think dad's are really important to kids (my parents were divorced also). I want the kids to spend time with their dad but right now I feel like I am the only grown up in the room.

AIBU ABOUT TESTING FOR HER? Can anyone see a way around this issue? Any out of the box ideas appreciated.

OP posts:
ellargh · 01/12/2012 03:45

YANBU. Demand tests for them both and honestly, with clean tests and the dogs in the home I'd still say no. I'm very pro dogs but when the children have conditions it isn't worth the risk.

If he wants to see them so much he can take it to court and do everything in his power to change his situation.

Lueji · 01/12/2012 07:45

I agree. Let him go to court.

I'd be requesting monthly tests for both, and even so your house does seem the best location for overnights.

ToManyDicksOnTheDancefloor · 01/12/2012 07:59

YANBU. Hell would have to freeze over before I allowed my children to stay there. What an arsehole he sounds, unbelievable. Stick to your guns, let him take you to court.

MushroomSoup · 01/12/2012 08:08

Jesus he wouldn't be anywhere near my kids.
Stick to your guns.

akaemmafrost · 01/12/2012 08:13

No, God, no, no, no ad infinitum.

My ex was a drinker and wasn't slowed then for MUCH less than that. Stick to your guns, you are RIGHT, I also know how you can second guess yourself when someone is ranting at you. Don't in this situation. At all.

akaemmafrost · 01/12/2012 08:13

Allowed them

Proudnscaryvirginmary · 01/12/2012 08:19

Oh my God, do you really need to ask?

You are absolutely right and absolutely not hysterical.

There is a very, very real risk of serious harm happening to one of your children in his 'care'.

I'm so sorry your children have his fucking TWAT for a father.

If he really loved and cared for them he would see that you are right and that his house is not safe for his children.

So, sorry if I missed this, does he see them on his own? Because I would go so far as to say I would want supervised access. IMO your kids are in danger being with them anyway - let alone staying the night.

Proudnscaryvirginmary · 01/12/2012 08:19

this fucking TWAT, not his

CleansLate · 01/12/2012 08:29

You are not being unreasonable.

So far as I can see, though, he has signed an agreement that partners (and presumably himself), should be tested if the CP deems it necessary, which the CP has.

There are presumably medical records pertaining to the dog attacking your DC?

He has a documented history of drug abuse.

Sounds like she does too, with a criminal record?

It would be easy to demonstrate his home is unsafe and you cannot rely on him to ensure his children's safety.

So the OW in legal terms is just an additional reason why the DCs shouldn't be with him unsupervised, let along overnight, let alone in his deathtrap/dangerous dog-ridden home.

The only issue I can see is the legal system where you are - he can say "you can't tell me what to do" all he likes but can he force you to allow contacts or overnights? Is there a system as there is in the UK where you can have this issue arbitrated by a judge and contact supervised in the meantime?

You are not being U. Sounds like one of your children could already have lost an eye. Try to put aside your (totally understandable), feelings about the OW in case your XH tries to paint you as an unreasonable woman scorned (have seen this happen), and focus on the fact that he has gone against his previous agreements and cannot prove he's not an active risk to his DCs, and that his house is not suitable for children (nor are his pets).

God you poor thing.

twosquared · 01/12/2012 08:37

Thanks for the advice ladies and thank you akaemmafrost. Nice to know I'm not the only one who second guesses themselves in a situation like this.
Really trying to avoid court as it costs a fortune here but I don't know what else I can do. Mediation didn't work so I guess that's the only option now....

OP posts:
twosquared · 01/12/2012 08:45

Thankfully he can't force overnights until a court grants it.

The kids of course can't understand why they can't stay with daddy. He tells them every time he sees them that mummy won't let them stay with him. Of course I can't tell them why. I say that mummy and daddy can't agree and a court needs to tell us what to do because we can't agree.

So I'm pretty sad for the kids. I'd love them to have overnights too (I can't imagine what it would be like to sleep in past six am). But if he passes a test and she doesn't, I think evidence stacks up that she isn't the worlds most responsible person. If she sat out and got stoned on the balcony and my kids went down to an unlocked door the next morning I could never forgive myself.

Its a really crap situation. Have learned to be super strong this year though so I guess there is a silver lining....!

OP posts:
CleansLate · 01/12/2012 08:50

Well if he can't force it, that's something.

Would there be any traction in explaining to your DCs that you don't think daddy's house is safe because of [dog] (presumably they remember what happened!), and the balconies? And that the judge will help you agree about what is best?

Honestly I cannot imagine a court in (almost), any land thinking that unsupervised overnights in a deathtrap with a dangerous dog are a good idea even without the drug use!

SobaSoma · 01/12/2012 09:13

Honestly I cannot imagine a court in (almost), any land thinking that unsupervised overnights in a deathtrap with a dangerous dog are a good idea even without the drug use! Exactly

prettywhiteguitar · 01/12/2012 09:17

Absolutely not until they both grow up

I had the same with my ex, I was 'hysterical' and 'unreasonable'

He will not have access until he has a safe place to live

I know it's hard as they use emotional blackmail on you to try and bend to what they want, but you have to be the adult here as they clearly aren't

Tell the stupid fucker to grow up and then he can have the privilege of overnight access! Honestly my relate counseller told be to just turn up at ex's house and if it wasn't suitable then to withhold access. Not sure if you have to do much more than that, if he wants to waste money going to court and telling a judge that his drugged up girlfriend is a suitable guardian with a dangerous flat and dogs then good luck to him.
Keep evidence if you can, if he lets slip of his attitude try to get it in txts etc

Keep strong and ignore him trying to control you

prettywhiteguitar · 01/12/2012 09:19

Actually this is more than just being tested for drugs he cannot be trusted to keep the children safe

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