help to move to an amicable separation please

[desparatelyseekingsomething]

I need to discuss separation with oh but do not know how to move from where we are now to where we need to be. We have children and a joint mortgage etc so I cannot break off all contact. He is (I think) emotionally and verbally abusive. For the last two years it has been very bad - he is very angry all the time, I think because he sees the relationship failure as being my "fault". I get the impression that he feels that all would be well if only I would "behave" (ie give up work and instead devote myself to him and the children). We have been together nearly 20 years but it is clear to me that it is not now working. He on some level appears to understand this (he keeps telling me that he prefers it when I am away with work, that he does not like being with me etc) but I cannot seem to get him to discuss any kind of separation - he just gets very angry and shouts a lot. Any suggestions?

There's no way to be "amicable" with a bully I'm afraid. You just have to make the arrangements as best you can then tell him it's over and get out of there.

We need to discuss things like custody though.

Might be best to use a solicitor for that. What do you think?

He is rational and intelegent and quite money focused (ie will not want to waste money on a solicitor). I feel that divorce must go through stages - ie I'm guessing that most people dont just wake up and split up. Is there an anger stage?

I'm confused - do you want to split up with him?

Hi desperatelyseekingsomething. I've just separated with my XP and there are some similarities with your circumstances. I'm moving house very soon and we are getting on pretty well, considering.

We managed this by negotiating all the detail of our separation by email. That way we didn't have to have long face-to-face negotiations, I could think in peace and with time, at a time that suited me, and not be verbally steamrolled off course, and we both have a written record of what we have agreed that we can refer to if disputes arise. It's a lot less emotional too and you're less likely to have a row IMO. It helps that XP works away for long periods of time so we weren't in the same building when we were dealing with touchy stuff like maintenance and contact arrangements. You can still use a lawyer for reference - I did for issues around maintenance and XP did too - but instead of the lawyer charging you ££££ to negotiate you can do it yourself and just ask him/her specific questions where necessary, and then if the process breaks down you can use law as recourse.

HTH.

You need to talk to a solicitor. Many offer a free initial half-hour. You'd be able to get a lot of details that way about how best to go about a separation in a practical sense, what would be a reasonable settlement and what your options are in terms of mediation. Costs are inevitable and you will both need separate legal representation whatever happens next. If you can agree things between you rather than using a court it is certainly cheaper but I utterly agree with a previous post that aiming for 'amicable' with a bully is a slim hope because they will always want to stay in control. Anyone who says lawyers are a waste of money has to be regarded with suspicion.... the implication is that they don't want you to have any back-up.

The only 'stages' really are 'separation' and 'divorce'

do you want to split up with him? yes. The only 'stages' really are 'separation' and 'divorce' - there must be a way that you get to divorce though - ie if the relationship breaks down then I'd imagine that there is some "coming to terms with" to go through. I feel that I am moarning the loss of what may hav ebeen but that he is still very angry that I couldn't make it work (by being a "better" in his eyes, person.

Yes you do need to come to terms with the whole thing and grieve for the loss of your marriage but you each need to do that separately - it's not up to you to ensure your husband is ok. If he is emotionally and verbally abusive then the only sensible course of action is to make all the arrangements on your own and then tell him it's over.

You seem to imagine a different scenario - what would that be?

Agree again with CailinDana that the coming to terms part is far easier when you are separated. Especially if this person is angry, controlling or bullying. You will not realise quite how controlled and bullied you have been until you have been free of it for a few months. You have no terms of reference currently..

In case that's not clear.... you tell him it's over and you ask him to leave.

You get to the stage of divorce/separation because you can not longer stay in the marriage, you make the steps towards that, and there is plenty of time after that for processing emotionally. I don't think you can do the grieving process before, that is the time for cold headed action.

You have absolutely no control over either how your husband will process his emotions, or to be honest how he will behave. He may deal with the divorce like a mature adult and allow it to remain amicable, or he may revert to teen behaviour and kick and scream and make your life difficult and unpleasant.

Ways to make your life hard - refuse to return divorce papers to court, refuse maintenance for the children, inconsistent contact with children, emotionally abusive emails/texts/calls to you, attempting to control you through the children. Blaming you for everything from his premature hair loss through to the colour of the sky. Choosing to lose his job. Telling the world 'his version of events' through facebook or other media. In a manner of speaking, he may be putting in effort to be 'nice' while you are married and may not feel this is needed once you ask him to leave.

I am sure there are people out there that have a more painless experience of their relationship ending. They are not the people who have angry, emotionally and verbally abusive spouses. I would advise that you get a lawyer and speak to them and keep the legal process separate from the emotional one.

You seem to imagine a different scenario - what would that be? Up until about 2 years ago I was very focused on trying to "fix" the relaltaionship. I realized that I couldn't and so gave up and started to think about life beyond the relationship - put more energy into work etc. He was very up and down anger wise - ie would completely lose it, row, shout etc then all would be fine until the next time. Often a couple of weeks between each major row. Over the last 18 months or so he has just been cross all teh time - he will now often lose his temper several times a day. I was assuming that this was because he was realising that it was "over" (he keeps telling me that life is better when I am not here etc) and was angry about it. So I hoped that he would come to terms with the fact that it is over and stop flying off the handle every time I appear.

Why not have a look at this thread where you will find lots of people supporting each other through the stages of leaving an EA relationship.

You are focusing a lot on how he feels desperately. It's clear that he this marriage is not worth working on any more and your hope that he will change and at least stop bullying you is not going to come true I think. Work on your own acceptance of the situation - on coming to terms with the fact that he isn't a decent person and that you don't want to be married to him and work as best you can on the logistics of separating. Try to let go of your need for him to come to terms with things and calm down - it might happen, it might not, but either way you need to get out regardless of how he feels.

Do you see that?

Omg. Letsmakecookies - you have just written perfectly how my hopefully stbxh is behaving... He is doing every single one of those things to me! Has he read it on a website somewhere? it's like he has this list and he's ticking them off!

OP I hope things are less traumatic for you, what I would say is I spent a lot of head space at the beginning worrying about him and how he would be feeling....he doesn't care one jot about the devastation he causing to me through this, just like he didn't care when he was verbally and emotionally abusive to me through the course of our marriage. I am not saying be reckless with his feelings but he is an adult, you need to look after yourself and your children.

If he keeps telling you that that "life is better when you are not there", it is very clear what you need to do.

Visually ring-fencing yourself, your life and your interests off separately.

Agree give him minimum head-space, and once you separate his life is no longer your problem.

p.s. anger tantrums, a person constantly losing their temper, general verbal attacks - these can very quickly become "normalised" in EA. The best response is always to walk away, fast.

I would disagree with the not being able to be amicable with a bully. My Ex was emotionally and physically abusive, but we have a very amicable split. I'm not sure how, but it works much better now than it ever did. He actually parents and cooks for him and my DD and sometimes even me!!!