Dr - dodgy behaviour - what do you think?

[sunsetpark]

I just want to write this down and get some other people's persepective on this. Hope this is the right place. Chat seemed too light for this.

So I'm in the Drs with 20 mo with bad cough who is having chest listened to by Dr. He is grumbling and turning into my shoulder as he doesn't like the feeling of the stethoscope on her back/chest. Dr's manner very chatty and bright.

Dr scoots his chair really close so that my knee is right between his legs, immediatley I feel slightly uncomfortable. He reaches across me and the back of his forearm briefly brushes side of my breast closest to DS twice. Nb I have various winter layers on. This is all in the course of having a good listen to his chest so feels like Dr is just getting on with what he has to do.

But at the time I am finding myself having to lean back because I'm feeling he is just too close. Even leaning my head back slightly away from him. It was all happening v quickly and I was so focussed on getting DS sorted and getting it over with I am not really 'registering' what is going on - if that makes sense. I couldnt tell at the time whether it was just what he had to do to check slightly wriggly DS or something more dodgy. If he'd had openly groped me it would have been easy to react and I would've pushed him away and shouted.

Leave DRs and can't get it out of my head, ring DH immediately to tell him.

Do you think that it was dodgy or was it an accident?

I'm thinking of writing annonymous letter to practice explaining that i felt he got too close and made me feel v uncomfortable and that he might need some further training around safeguarding patients whatever it's called etc

Don't want to put my name on it. Sounds stupid but I just don't, but feel as if I don't say anything then I would feel terrible if something more serious happened to someone else.

Part of me can't shake feeling that this is a fuss about nothing and I'm just over reacting - other part thinks red flags went up in the back of my mind and the fact I had to actively lean away from him is just plain odd.

Anyone else had anything similar? This has never happened to me before so wonder if Im over thinking it?

Speak to the practice manager - present it as factually as you can. If it's a one off that's fine, if there's a history of this then it will get picked up.

It's a tough one because I'm the first one to say listen to your instincts. However from what you have told us - in a fair amount of detail - I really can't see that it would be fair to send a letter of complaint. You feeling your boundaries have been crossed is actually different from him behaving inappropriately.

From what you say, there was hardly anything in it, except that he went too close.
Would you have felt the same if it was a female GP?

I'd be worried if there were more such "incidents" and with no reason to get that close.

I had something very similar happen to me when i had a chest infection...are you based in East Sussex by any chance?

what chickpea said, exactly

I mean he brushed against your breast twice. Surely that could have been avoided. It wasn't exactly an emergency situation where he had to act in the heat of the moment IYSWIM.

I went to have my sinuses xrayed last year and the doctor definitely nudged my breast during it. Completely unnecessarily. Like you I was left with that doubting feeling - did it really happen? was it just an accident? thinking about it afterwards though, I know that is what happened.

Spooktrain, firstly I am surprised that you had an X-ray of your sinuses - I was under the impression that these hadn't been common practice for some years, secondly it won't have been a doctor performing the examination and thirdly, I am a radiographer, I am certain that I have brushed against patients' breasts, penises, testicles, backsides in the course of taking X-rays , all entirely and I must emphasise, entirely inadvertently, I would be horrified if any patient thought I was touching them inappropriately. It is impossible to do my job without touching people.

Radiographer last week when i was having spine xrays, got really close, needed to touch me to help me get into correct positions,
Even ran hand down my my spine, just stopping at my knickers :(
Yes, i felt really uncomfortable, no, i didnt think anything untoward was going on.
You say the gp got really close to examine child who was snuggling right into you,
How else was he to do his job ?
You could have said "let me just change position here, so you reach him better ?" Or whatever ??

Like the others have said, its hard to say exactly as we werent there but I have experienced situations such as you described when at the GP with my own children. I dont reallly like being touched or too close to 'strangers' like that so i did feel uncomfortable but I never felt it was inappropriate, I always felt it was just part of them trying to examine a small child who is sitting on my lap. I think maybe you are over thinking it a bit, some people are just more touchy feely than others.

From what I've read, I'd say you're overacting, however, it wasn't me in your position. I have biggish breasts and they often get inadvertently brushed again in busy crowds, at Uni, in class, in a pub and at the Dr's. DD has heartscan's and I've been brushed a few times and had the Dr's close due to her not liking the equipment.

I'm quite adverse to closeness of strangers, and despite feeling uncomfortable, I have never once thought 'hang on...' I'd think long and hard about writing to the practice, mud sticks etc

To me you are making something out of nothing. However, you were the one there so it's up to you to decide what to do.

Having said that, if you do comment or complain please do it in person. Doing it anonymously is cheap and cowardly.

So the Dr had to get close to listen to your child's chest, a child that was not staying still and you over react big time, you want to write a letter to the practice to complain about the Dr but you are not brave enough to put your name to it, so you want to tarnish a man's careerer because you have an over active imagination?

In future go to superdrug and get come cough mixture

Schmoozer, I don't know if it helps but what happens is that to make sure the whole of your ( from the sounds of it, lumbar ) spine is on the xray, the radiographer feels for bony landmarks, in your case the bottom of your rib cage and the bumps of your spine on your back. I would usually, for the view when you're lying on your side, have my thumb on the spine at the back and my finger on your rib cage.
If you run your finger along the spine you can feel if the spine runs straight and maybe angle the X-ray beam so that it shows the spaces between the vertebrae more clearly. If you're having the very bottom of your spine examined, your sacroiliac joints, the radiographer might feel for bumps either side, and at the top of, your bum, the dimples you can sometimes see. I usually warn patients that I'm going to feel for their bones before I do it.
It is essential both to the production of an excellent image that will help you get an accurate diagnosis and to the reduction of radiation dose that the xray includes the area of interest and as little other tissue as possible.

I think pretty much all medical staff are concentrating so hard on what information they need to obtain when they're touching you, that ( in the nicest possible way ) you are not a 'person' , you are a 'lumbar spine' or a '? chest infection' or a ' raised bp ' - a skilled professional will manage to communicate a dispassionate interest while still making you feel that they are compassionate and empathetic - it's a very hard thing to do and some people are better at it than others.

Mrsass, yes that totally makes sense,
All the touching of my spine, etc seemed totally in keeping with the context of getting me in the right position, so feeling uncomfortable as much to do with the nice flappy gown, as anything else,
So it was very professional in my opinion.

another vote here for this being tunnel vision and lack of communication. It really sounds pretty normal, but I can also see why it might make someone uncomfortable.

Sunsetpark - perhaps more productive than an anonymous letter (where the doctor won't be able to tell if the author is Mrs Jones with paranoid delusions and a history of abuse, the 10 other people he saw that day who could conceivably been worried due to their own set of issues, the 20 others he can't remember, or Sunsetpark with a wriggly baby), would be a signed letter saying that while you understand the closeness was totally necessary, you felt a bit uncomfortable, and thus could the Dr possibly articulate what he's going to do before he leaps right in, i.e. say that he's going to have to get very close to you, but he is really just trying to get to your baby?

That way the Dr knows which consultation is the one that caused the letter to be written, and he gets a heads-up about needing to communicate better, and you don't accuse him of inappropriate contact when it's not clear that there was inappropriateness. Also, if there is a history of inappropriate contact, this will be noticed, but if there isn't a history, this will be regarded as a communication issue.