"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's November 2012, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread <a class="break-all" href="http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/440839-but-we-took-you-to-stately-homes-a-thread-for" target="_blank">here (December 2007)</a>

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/angry/hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/lifetime experiences of being hurt/angry etc by our parents? behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn?t have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/or current parental contact has left you feeling damaged falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect you feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defenses that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety will undoubtedly us it during confrontation to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behavior. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offenses against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behavior. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get," or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ....

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realize that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

Follow up to pages first thread:

I?m sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don?t claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support.

Happy Posting (smithfield posting as therealsmithfield)

I have cut and pasted this because I think it is fab. Just in case anyone misses the link.

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1621664-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

I just need to vent, as I feel if I don't get it all out my head will explode.

Following on from my mother ruining my birthday...

My mother has been ill for a few days, and yesterday my brother took her to hospital where she was admitted with vomiting and dehydration. He told me I would have to come down today to be with her as he didn't want her left on her own. I said that was fine. DP said my youngest could go to work with him and the 2 older ones would be fine by themselves (18 and 15). Then brother text me and said could I go down last night. It's 45 + miles away. I said I could go down but that I would have to come back as I couldn't leave the kids overnight (DD1 already had plans). he text back 'oh well'. I asked him what he meant by that and he ignored me.
All evening I had no word about my mum's condition, I text my brother and asked him what her condition was and he told me to ask her myself! I text her and got no reply. I then phoned the hospital and they put me through...I heard the nurse say to mother 'it's newpatches on the phone' and she replied 'who?'...says it all really.

I asked how she was and she said that something had shown up on her stomach x ray...nobody had bothered to tell me and I had been worrying all evening. Then she asked why hadn't I called on her mobile. I said I had text but she hadn't replied so that's why I phoned the hospital and she said 'well I can't can I...I'm hooked up to drips in both arms'...so why fecking ask me?
While I was on the phone the dr turned up to explain it all so she put the phone down with the promise she would call back as soon as he'd gone.
She didn't, so once again I called her and said no one was telling me anything and she started shouting at me that she hadn't anything to tell me and the dr had told her nothing...well how was I supposed to know that when no one had told me?

Late last night she text to say it was gall stones.

This morning she text to ask could I pick her up from the hospital if she was discharged. I called her back and said of course I would but it would take me an hour to get there so I would set off regardless of whether she was being discharged or not so I'd be there as soon as I could.

My dd1 changed her plans for tonight (NYE) as I said I wouldn't have drinking in the house if I wasn't there, DS got up and got ready, DD2 got ready, DP went home and I had a shower and got dressed. Just as I was leaving she text to tell me not to bother!!! I asked why and she said that she would wait til brother finished work (4pm) and he could pick her up, this from a woman who gets hysterical at the mere smell of hospitals. I said I wanted to see her and she text back again saying not to go.

THEN my sis in law text to say mother needed picking up asap...I said she didn't want me to so the texts started getting crappy, saying I had to go...I repeated that I had been told not to go and she got stroppy and said she'd go (She works 5 mins away from the hospital anyway)...I text my mother and told her that sil was picking her up, I was very confused as I was on my way but told not to etc and she text back to say she would call me when she got home. sil text to say 'just to let you know she is home' 4 hours ago and still nothing from my mother.

I am so hurt. She always does this...on family occasions it is 'I will come, I won't come' always, then today it is 'pick me up, don't pick me up', such head games, it's driving me insane. I'm just waiting for my brother to start on at me for 'leaving her there', even though I was specifically told by her not to go. I'm so so close to going NC with both her and my brother.

This all stinks, especially when you consider that when I was abused by exh none of them were there for me, when I had to testify in court I did it alone, when I had cervical cancer at the beginning of this year, none of them was there - in fact I don't even think my mother told my brother I had it! When I had a horrific miscarriage and subsequent blood transfusions, my mother said 'I'm delighted'.

I'm actually beyond hurt right now.

Oh Patches, that's awful. Sounds like an absolute head-fuck for you. What do you plan to do to stop all this pain? For me, it's just my mother and my brothers are her victims (I am minimal contact 12 years) so I just can't imagine how hurtful it must be to have other family members behave like this too.

Patches, that is horrific. My mum does similar with family occasions, it's bloody horrible. At least you have a bit of distance??

Rough, newpatches - this may be old advice (and there's a helpful recap at the top of this thread), but check out Susan Forward's Toxic Parents, and the site 'Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers'. Both useful (Smellslike, I found Toxic InLaws good,but prefer MN for actual strategies).

Newpatches, I'd be tempted to have a phone accident like notarealorphan had, it's terrible what can happen to a phone to make you uncontactable :)

I always covered for her My sister and brother both told anyone and everyone what she was like but as the eldest they kind of looked to me for the definitive and i never said anything. Until this year and I got an awful letter full of self pity going back 30 years! I only asked her to think about some of the things she said to us! I now tell people when they ask about her that I don't see her anymore. No one is surprised

Yes smells, i'm made to feel guilty as dh isn't always on my side and sometimes does guiltrip me about pil without me realising it straight away.

I'm sometimes made to feel it's me against all of them, including dh, but i must learn he can't help being sucked in by it all. After all it is him who has suffered more greatly than me.

I'm one day waiting to see light at the end of the tunnel, the day dh realises finally, once and for all nc is the way forward.....it is getting closer
Found out today dh texted mil late last night to say for her to stop her hassling-that is a 1st, i'm proud of him

Newpatches, that is dreadful

I'm at all of the stories coming out, but it's so good that they're coming out and we're not all quietly wondering to ourselves if it's just us. It isn't. We can all see it from each other's posts.

The 'but she's your mother' quote is a classic. I answer that with 'well, that didn't mean much to her'. One of my sisters recently berated me that before she died mum didn't get a chance to say goodbye to me and her grandchildren (because she never tried, and never gave a shit about them before NC but there we go) and finished off with 'perhaps when you're a grandmother you'll understand'. I'm still waiting for an opportunity to explain why that comment was totally out of order as she's now gone NC with me so noddy I get it about not having a voice. I might try to write stuff down, if only to try and get it out of my head.

The link about individuation was really enlightening, that separation is so important but it takes so long to finally give up and realise your voice won't ever be heard. I think it's the only way though.

My mother thinks anyone who wants that sort of love etc is needy and over emotional apart from her of course who is sensitive and easily hurt You have to laugh really.

My mother too! They're "silly" or "overemotional"

When my younger brother split from his gf she told him that next time he got involved to make sure it was with someone who liked him more than he liked her and then he would always be in charge

Noddy my mum said the same to me. Also suggested that OH might be a paedophile (no one would just want to be with me)

My ex and I split amicably and as a mutual decision after 7 years When she saw me crying she said what on earth are you crying for and I said I am just sad its the end of an era etc and she said it wasn't normal and I should toughen up.She says I love my current partner of 20 yrs too much and says I am deluded when I say I am truly happy.

Thats awful
I had a broken engagement and was devastated. Mother said she knew id been z"fond" of him

Noddy your mother sounds like a classic narc - nobody's emotions are valid except hers. And God forbid you should be happy, no, you must be deluded

I think she is fresh. When anyone goes through any crisis she always says How will I cope with this? Never a thought for the person suffering.

So after getting a text from sil to say mother was home, I then had one from mother saying she was being kept in and she wasn't happy about it. WTF...one minute she's home according to sil and the next she's being kept in according to her. I text mother and asked what the hell was going on, and she said she had been in the middle of texting and had hit send by mistake (???) which wouldn't explain the fact that she had said she was staying in! She said it was sil's father (who she hates and never sees) who HAD to pick her up and bring her home! HAD to??? I was on my way out of the door, had filled up the car with fuel...DP says they're all playing me and I shouldn't even respond but what the hell kind of cruelty is this??? I just sent one back to her and said I was glad she was home...I didn't trust myself to go any further.

Your DP is right newpatches. Don't respond. Your mother is even willing to lie about being in hospital to make you feel inadequate. I'd switch your phone off and enjoy new year. They sound terrible.

Patches you need to not engage with the games. I had to learn that the hard way but it saves you the heartache

Thanks. I have already had a happy new year from my sister who I am very close to and who lives abroad, and I am spending the night with my DC and DP, so who else do I need to hear from?
What pees me off is that I spent last night crying my eyes out over it, worrying about her. Now I wonder why I bothered.

Your DP is right, NewPatches

And well done you on responding but not biting. Really, well done!

She's trying to create drama, and you're detaching, which is the right thing to do.

I also think you deserve a pat on the back for not going to pick her up - it's a long way and would have caused you to change all manner of plans. What is wrong with a taxi for her? Do not let her make you feel guilty for her accepting a lift from someone she has no respect for. If she had one shred of integrity she would have managed herself rather than get a lift from a man she will slag off to you. My blood is boiling on your behalf - why make you feel bad about her getting home safe? Lets ignore the lying - she was caught out good and proper there, wasn't she!

One thing I'm learning to do is not try to understand or rationalise their behaviour. How can you rationalise the irrational? She is treating you with cruelty because she is cruel. It's not about you (and it never has been/never will be) which makes it all the more hurtful, I know. What a mad old bat she is - try to ignore her and enjoy your evening with your family.

I wonder how much drama we will all see tonight/tomorrow as it's a "special" day, one which needs to be all about them...

The more you can see it as not you the easier it gets. I still go back and forward over everything she has done but I have more good days now.