So DP lets it slip that finance is behind his reluctance to marry me

[Birkoff]

My DP was married for a long time. He has a good job, earns a good wage and his ex wife never worked a day in her life. When they divorced, she naturally took half of everything despite the fact that she never contributed a penny (his words, not mine). He admitted he was bitter about this as he feels he works "his bollocks off" for years and ended up having to give half of it away.

Anyway, we've been together coming up to 2 years now. I've always wanted marriage and he's kind of avoided the subject. At the weekend I asked him if he'd ever get married again, his reaction was "why when everything is fine as it is?" I told him I'd like to get married and he said "let's see how things go then".

Last night he made the mistake of getting drunk and admitting that he won't get married as he doesn't want to lose out financially again when it all goes tits up. Basically, he wants to make sure that if we split, I'm entitled to nothing of his.

I'm gutted. Not because I want half of everything but because I didn't see us ever breaking up and if we did, I would have hoped finances wouldn't have been his first concern.

Am I being unreasonable to be really hurt by this?

" What's the point in marriage if we're having to write financial contracts up before we even reach the aisle? "

Newsflash... marriage is a financial contract. Once you sign on the dotted line this confers various financial rights. I know it all gets dressed up (literally) with hearts and flowers but it is quite a hard-nosed financial deal at its core. If he has significant assets that he wants to protect - and I'm in a slightly similar position myself only I have no ex to take into account - then it's a reasonable thing to do.

Sorry just saw the other posts. You'd be naive to believe everything he says....

Look he feels he's been burned and it's really his choice whether he wants to marry or not, you can't make him. The broader question here is whether he's right for you at all....

My DH also feels he was screwed over by his ex wife - and having met her, I do believe him. She also never worked and wouldn't get up in the mornings.

However, he wanted to get married again, new start, new person, new life etc. He put all that behind him and knows its not me.

I think you need to have some serious talks with him.

I lived with a man like that. He hadn't been married before but I was the woman "who never worked a day in her life".

We never married so I had no rights to anything. But I was a domestic slave for years. I did all the childcare, all the washing, I bought the tickets so he could park his expensive car outside the house, I dropped of his dry cleaning.

It's true, I was not PAID. But to say that I didn't work a day in my life would be a very sexist way of looking at things.

So in your shoes I'd 1) try to get to the bottom of what he means when he says that his wife never worked a day in her life. Does he value anything other than money and if this is the case, does he understand that somebody sacrificed their time (and their own potential earnings) to do the things he considers worthless - but still expected done?

and 2) you have to protect yourself with a man like this. If you want to stay with him you need to have your own income and buy your own house and rent it out and you need to force him to meet you half way with the childcare and not do a tap more than 50% round the house. If you have to pay cleaners and childminders so that you can afford to own your own investment property to rent out and be able to nurture your own career then make sure that that cost is met fairly by him.

Even some decent men do not quite grasp that it is the cost of having had children that has left them broke after a divorce. WHO do they think raised the children? who was with them while they were at work? I think a lot of men who consider themselves decent and fair totally over look this fact....... if THEY weren't with their children when they were at work who was with their children???

Do you want to get married because you want to have children? If so you have a lot of questions to ask him about pooling money, working as a team, taking maternity leave etc. Don't have children with someone without the protection of marriage if there's any chance he has financial 'issues'.

If you want to get married just because you want to get married then he has every right to protect himself financially (as do you). You could have a pre nup and then it would be void if you had children anyway? how do you feel about that?

It's not about hurting you, it's to protect himself. No doubt he thought he would be married forever before.

ps, I was the one who ended up financially screwed by an x who was determined not to risk losing any of his assets.

A split between cohabitants can in many cases be just as drawn out, painful and protracted as a marital split. Cohabiting does not make any subsequent split any less complicated. I think he would be extremely nasty in the event of any split.

Why would you want to be with someone who actually regards all his financial assets as his alone?. Remaining his partner puts you in a very poor legal position in any event, he knows this.

He will not marry you. You have to decide whether this is acceptable to you or not. If you want marriage (and perhaps children), then it won't be with this person.

My DP's ex wife got half and rightly so. She's bringing up the kids which is bloody hard work! DP still does over and above what he "should" do and again rightly so. He's also never said a bad word about her.

I don't like your boyfriend.

What Attila said.

You need to be clear to him that you do want to get married one day but that you are happy to wait awhile. Two years is not that long. You could set a deadline and see what happens.

Hate to hijack the thread but what would people do in my situation? Lone parent owning a very expensive property almost outright that I have worked hard to pay for over the last 20+ years. One DS to whom it would all go in the event of my death. If I married my boyfriend tomorrow and he moved in he would not be contributing towards the mortgage (because there isn't one), just household bills. I'm too old to have more children so that's not an issue. He earns a decent salary etc. But.... should we split in a few years' time, he'd be entitled to try claiming 50% of the property as a marital asset, depriving not only me but my DS in turn. Would I be heartless to set something up to protect that asset?

He reckons she did nothing because he made the DC's packed lunches?

I think he has a lot of stuff to process. Yes, he's been bitten, but he's being pretty irrational about it. If you're willing to wait while he sorts his head out, I don't see what's wrong with that. But he will have to make some effort. There will have to be A Conversation.

I recently dated a man who also felt 'screwed' in his divorce, but being a mother I had empathy with his xw and although I was very fond of this guy and I think he is a nice man I could see that part of his belief that he was screwed was his own failure to appreciate that his wife had definitely played a bigger part raising their kids. Her career sacrifice had been greater. Yeh, she might be able to work more now kids are older but that's not the point. The point was the judge saw that they should emerge from a fairly long marriage with equal wealth, and so, he will have to hand over some of his pension to her.

But because I am a mother myself, although I understand why this bothers him, I tried to put it to him that that is the price of having children more than it was the price of a marriage or the price of a failed marriage.. That chunk out of your pension later is what some people paid in massive childcare costs when the children were tiny. I don't know if it got through really.

Some men want it both ways OP and your man sounds like one of them.

You need to be clear to him that you do want to get married one day but that you are happy to wait awhile. Two years is not that long. You could set a deadline and see what happens.'

Two years is plenty of time, particularly if the OP is in her 30s. She's under no obligation to be 'happy to wait awhile' and see what happens.

Cogito, that's a different scenario and yes, I think you should make legal arrangements to protect that asset for your ds.

It's a different thing from having your face permanently set in a supsicious squint, convinced that your boyfriend is a user-in-waiting, and refusing to take any steps that may entitle him to anything.

He may well have done the homework and packed lunches, but the truth is he wouldn't have been able to "work his bollocks off" if his XW wasn't shouldering the vast majority of childcare. Well, he could have paid for professional childcare and cleaning services, of course, but over those 18 years I think he'd have paid a lot more than the half of everything she took from the marriage when they divorced. I don't like the sound of him TBH.

However, I understand where he's coming from about wanting to protect himself from another divorce. Many divorcees feel like that at some point. It doesn't mean they don't care about their partners, but it does mean that they are not yet sure enough about the relationship to be prepared to take the risk. That may change over time or it may not.. You'd be the best judge of that, not us.

One thing I'd bear in mind purely on the snippet of the conversation you've given us is that he obviously doesn't see your relationship as equal. What you each bring to it is measured in financial terms only in his head it seems. That's not a very healthy start to a relationship as it instantly creates a power dynamic with him at the top.

He sounds very annoying OP. You'd have trouble with this man if you had children with him. He believes that being at home with the children all day is nothing. Would he do it? I doubt it.

What was his xw's earning potential? If she had worked would he have willingly supported that and the childcare costs that came with it? Or did he want her at home, not appreciating the role of childcarer or homemaker and not acknowledging the loss of her own career potential either? NOT to mention the time! week in week out, 24/7 being there for the kids.

He sounds like a total misogynist who wants it both ways. He wanted this from her but has no acknowledgement whatsoever that her time was worth anything. HER time was worth nothing in his eyes. The only thing of value was bringing in MONEY.

"It's a different thing from having your face permanently set in a supsicious squint, convinced that your boyfriend is a user-in-waiting, and refusing to take any steps that may entitle him to anything"

But that's what I'd be doing, wouldn't it? According to the logic here, if I did not throw open my deeds as well as my arms, it must mean I don't trust him and that I think he's a gold-digger... Aside from his rather jaundiced views about his ex-wife, why is it OK for me to protect my assets but not the OP's boyfriend?

Do you live with him? Is he one of those who earns twice or more what you but you're still paying half of everything?

ClippedPhoenix, I agree with you. I didn't grudge my xbf's xw her settlement.

Because any body who has a couple of kids knows that a man who can say that a mother never worked a day in her life is CLUELESS.

i'm a single mother and to be honest i feel like i have ten years of "working my bollix" off as well. NOthing to show for it mind you.

The man I dated was nothing like my x, but just knowing that he considered himself screwed in his divorce did not endear me massively to him. It's funny, being a mother, you just won't tolerate that nonsense. My xbf did not trash his xw though in fairness to him. It was the legal system he believed had screwed him. I disagreed with him!

Dahlen+1 "Like"

Exactly Blueberry. A man that did what the OP's boyfriend is doing, when I was dating was the biggest Red Flag ever for me, it spoke volumes and they were blocked/dumped.

I understand completely where he's coming from. My DP had 85% of his assets taken from him by a wife who 'didn't work a day in her life' but she was a SAHM for 3 years even before she met him as she had another child.

He could never of started a business without her doing all the childcare and everything for the house and I actually have huge respect for her for the way she has raised her children.

Your DP doesn't have to get married if he doesn't want to. And He is being sensible by wanting to look after his money and take care of himself financially.

If marriage is that important to you then maybe you shouldn't be together as you seem to want different things?

I read the OP and briefly wondered if you were dating my brother.

He met his wife over the internet and regards her son as his -- would have liked to adopt him but wasn't allowed to. Three years down the line, she left him and

• is arguing that anything she earned outside the home, he should REFUND to her as her contribution to the household, but that his earnings and pension are half hers.

• is arguing, despite working part time, for permanent spousal maintenance as well as child maintenance.

• is threatening to withhold all access to the child if he argues, and in fact is doing so right now.

Incidentally, her earnings potential was not being affected by caring for her/their child. At first her mother was caring for him, then our parents.

Now, I'd say he really has been royally screwed over, and yes, he's bitter (and this isn't his normal state, which is hopelessly optimistic and naive, on the whole).

It may be legal, but in this case it's surely at least somewhat unfair.