Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships: 13

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page1.htm heart to heart]] a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

[Shriek]

so agree with fool, who has definitely swallowed the book . So true.

simple, (1)using outside examples (4), not criticising father despite them causing upset in DC.

so hard to hear the good /bad/ugly experiences and taking the FW behaviour by proxy!(7) yes, finding the voice here has been the hardest for me, as it means me having to move on, and move them on to, as you say, gently but firmly.

and yep, soo easy to be misunderstood in the simplest of ways (8) (especially important when everything becomes so critical and tense), just found that the other day very painfully, when DC thought I was supporting FW cruel decision about contact.

Gosh it is so comforting to hear those points, like affirmations of how fucking hard it is in reality, and that other one (3) being strong in the face of their distress, not ever thinking they are upsetting you or worrying you, and you are the strong one to listen to their hurts and worries despite feeling very wobbly, deeply upset and out of your depth at times

thank you fool

[Shriek]

One of my hardest one, if I havn't already said, is allowing them to face who he is, facing the truth and horrible reality of being subject to such distressing abusive and impossible to understand behaviour, when my instinct is to protect from that; the realisation that, whilst none of us is perfect, their fatheris unpreditable volatile, agressive, bullying, childish, selfish and all thos other awful thing that make one screwy (spaghead). Others have said it here, that they want only the best for their dc; to be part of happy family, mum and dad together not torn apart by visits, rows, bullying, nobody wants that in their little lives, but we have to accept it as do they, but soo disappointing.....

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Shriek and fool - wise words, thank you.

My sticking point is number 4 on your list, fool. How do I explain what's caused the separation without either criticising their father's behaviour to me or taking on some of the blame myself when it's not my fault?

Brilliant list, though, fool - look forward to a day when I see with such clarity.

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Don't you have to say, "That was wrong of him" at times?

[Shriek]

i find that a very difficult line Charlotte I have absolutely said when something is unacceptable, but there are options of how they might deal with it, deflecting it back to them, how did you feel, what would you like to do about it, or just listen to their upset without judgement (you can bet he won't!).

I can't help but feel outraged by some things I hear which most definitely are wrong, but have to bide my time for the opportunity to raise in another way, (like fool says, using films/books, outside examples). Books are good at all ages to hellp children see for themselves through others' stories, particularly helpful for understanding parents breaking up and the effect on children, and then abusive behaviours, any recommendations anyone?

I have changed the way visits are handled as a result of some behaviours tho, which I have clearly stated as being unacceptable.

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

pony, did you say you're reading Lundy's book about the effect on the children? Does that give guidance on these issues?

What you say, Shriek, sounds eminently wise, and I suppose the natural reaction is to find out how the child feels about the event they're relating, rather than to say, "Ooh, your awful Dad."

[foolonthehill]

Yes you can and should say that behaviour is wrong...it's the direct criticism of the person that produces problems.

Think toddler "what you did/said was wrong/naughty" rather than "you are bad/naughty"

thus FW "rant, rant, rage, push"..If the DC challenge (usually by justifying something they have done badly saying "well daddy does that)you say to DC that behaviour was wrong. People should not (shout, use bad language, push/hit) because it is wrong/dangerous/rude/unkind (cut and paste to fit). the phrase "sometimes grown ups make bad choices about how we behave" is useful in this house (eg when i "lose it" and have to apologise for shouting unreasonably).

I would only comment on the behaviour after the children have brought it up though...not start to dismantle their DF in front of their eyes. You don't need to say the behaviour is wrong, if you get out and are not normalising it and they see normal healthy relationships and your normal healthy reactions they will see it for themselves.

[MatchsticksForMyEyes]

I'm really finding it hard keeping my cool over visits. I went to collect the dc earlier and was told to clear out all my stuff, including my wedding dress and all photos of me. Then was told his 243 pounds salary sacrifice that goes directly to the nursery is the only financial contribution I'm going to get.
The parting shot from him, fortunately out of the kids' hearing, was "Good luck to.your next husband-hope he has better luck than I did!" I just said I hoped he was joking as it is so laughable really.
I don't know how to minimise the damage to DD in particular, as although he says he isn't bad mouthing me, I am suspicious.

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

Ok, good - think I can do that. That's a helpful clarification, thanks fool. Yes, I do it naturally with the dcs, label the behaviour not the child, and it's just the same. But as you say, it's not convincing while you're in the relationship because our actions of normalising it speak louder than our words.

[tryingsoonflying]

Match that's awful what your exP said. Just what mine will say, no doubt. We are mad you see, because we've decided we don't want them

Maggie wanted to mention how amazed and awed I am by how strong and upbeat you're sounding. You sound like you have really gained strength from a bit of distance. Your mention of staying in original area sounds really reasoned and sensible, bearing in mind your dad's questionable behaviour. In answer to your question, the new flat is in striking distance of my old life, so same school and job, but a few miles from family home and also surrounded by family/friends who FW knows but isn't close to and doesn't know addresses of. By coincidence it's actually a stone's throw from dsis's in laws, who I love and are really great and supportive, like family. So yes, I am staying in area but with a bit of distance.

I keep getting butterflies of excitement and fear that after all these years, I may actually be escaping. Can it really be true? I can hardly believe it. Please give me strength to believe and stay on track, girls. xxx

[fiveaddwhat]

Hello - I'm so interested to read many of these posts, as I could have written much of them about my own partner at bad moments, this evening being one such time.

is this extremely EA or could it pass for normal - younger son vomited very badly 2 hours ago. I gave him a wash and change and brought him to partner to sit and cuddle while I changed all bedding etc. Son was then a little more sick so we both thought it better to wait up with him till he fell asleep then take him to bed (partner did say "I'll look after him - I always look after him all night - you go"). Son's eyes were fixed to the tv, so I suggested he'd fall asleep quicker if the tv were off. Partner wouldn't put it off, even for the 3 minutes it would take. He raised his voice (I was whispering), told me to go away and "leave us alone". After the football finished, I put the tv off myself. Partner then started a typical rant: f.ing idiot; you need medical attention; you're f.ing mad, woman and everyone knows it; you've gone mad again - you go like this every 4 weeks; (to our son) let's leave her alone she's gone mad again; why don't you get yourself seen to?

There was and always is lots more in the same vein. I'm feeling so cross with myself for letting our son again hear this.

I told him as I've told him before that that kind of behaviour is abusive, and he, as always, said it isn't: "I'm just telling you what you need to be told because it is a fact". So I also told him I'd ask other people's opinion. He said, as usual "I don't care. You're mad."

[MatchsticksForMyEyes]

Sounds classic EA to me. Particularly the telling you how other people are going to react.
Trying (don't know how to put in bold on phone) you CAN do it. I never thought I would. PM me if you like. You might be somewhere near me.

[CharlotteCollinsislost]

It certainly is EA, five. And if he really was concerned for your mental health, he wouldn't insult you and call you names, would he? That's not what adults in healthy relationships do.

Welcome to the thread.

[MatchsticksForMyEyes]

What brought it home to me was listening to almost all my friends talking about their relationships and the family time they have and thinking "That is so far from my relationship". I used to lie about even having a coffee after work as it wasn't worth the hassle of telling him. Or look forward to seeing him all day only for him to say something awful within minutes of being home. It took me a long time to realise how messed up our marriage was. In the end I was more like a housekeeper/PA than an equal partner in the marriage.

[natsnuts]

I'm just marking my place here... Not sure if this is me or not...

[Shriek]

yes fool thanks that makes it very clear to state the behaviour is wrong.
Agreed matchsticks still do I hear how 'other people think I'm this or that, and I'd never find anyone better' just a touch of arrogance there I used to wonder if he was taking drugs!!(on top of the alchohol), and it was a very depressing thought if this was as good as it got!

Welcome five and Nats bring your stuff to the party!

Trying nope flying! as you are, yay... keep it up. It is a big step, hence some nerves only natural, but you know its the RIGHT one. Just keep taking those steps; don't look back and you'll find yourself in a better place.

[lovemenot]

Need advice please.

Made a request of FW on Friday night which caused an outburst of me, me, me. Then he stormed off to the pub. Stayed out of his way yesterday and slept on the couch last night. Just got an "apology" text which is also me, me, me.

So....do I accept the "apology" in the knowledge that he will not change and keeping the peace contributes to my goal of saving my running away fund

or

do I challenge him, call him on all his me, me, me stuff in the name of self-respect?

If I challenge him, is it more likely that these episode of anger will increase due to him becoming more defensive? Am not afraid of him, or his anger, no physical abuse.

Thanks x

[Shriek]

State your case/make requests [calmly] whenever you need to, and ignore any unreasonable response/behaviour - bit like children really, don't engage with bad behaviours (actually ridiculously like children).

Apologies don't wash frankly, change is required. No good keep saying 'ooops sorry I seem to have hit you again', they have to stop hitting! Sorry's only work for genuine accidents, or misunderstandings and wanting to reframe for the best. Crossing a line, means checking out why the line was crossed, and how to make sure it never happens again.

Its also you allowing yourself to not engage, or feel you 'must' answer (for your honour or to 'right' the wrong); he did wrong, and he'll keep doing wrong you cannot change that only he can (if HE thinks its worth it and not until).

IMO his anger (frustration) will increase when you don't respond, because from my personal experiences its only the reaction that he's after, and no reaction leaves him alone with his actions/words, and nothing to 'feed off'.

[lovemenot]

Actually Shriek, you are right, I don't have to do anything at all. It wasn't even an apology more an explanation. (He says everyone blames him all the time, he is used to it but it gets very irritating!!!! WTF!)

So I will get on with my day without addressing the issue at all.

Thanks!

[lovemenot]

So I've just spent the couple of hours since I got his text (from the kitchen) taking a long shower, doing my nails and eyebrows, drying my hair....nice bit of pampering!

And due to my lack of response to his text, he has now left the house again without saying goodbye and presumabley gone for a pint.

It really is all about him, isn't it?

[Shriek]

uhuh

[TheSilverPussycat]

lovemenot mine remained nasty but became more distant when I managed to disengage, or tell him only information. It made him easier to live with during the divorce and settlement. Your self respect does not have to be demonstrated to him to exist in you!

[tryingsoonflying]

Yes, I agree with others, love. It's only if you want to stay and work on things that you need to bother with setting your boundaries, limits. If you've decided ultimate plan is to separate, then disengage. It's actually very relaxing after a while because you stop feeling it so badly and start to see the fwittery with a cynical, detached eye that is very strengthening.

Thank you shriek and match for spurring-on words, much needed! Hilde so encouraging to hear your happy times I am so pleased for you!

Silver I love your last sentence and agree with you 100%!

[BizzyLizW]

This thread is inspirational and worrying in equal measures. The more I read the more I realise what a terrible predicament and situation I have found myself in and that is such a scary place to be. I have all that I ever thought I wanted - a husband, family and home - but only on his terms and without any joy. I am not in a position to leave the relationship at the moment and I don't know if I ever will want to but reading this thread and hearing your stories is inspiring and giving me great strength. I will keep reading and may even post more about my situation but wanted to wish you all the strength and preserveance that you need.