They are clearing the loft!!

[Spuddybean]

I really need to rant. (Some of you may remember this saga) PILs have banned me from their house (after a few visits they decided i wasn't a nice person because i didn't eat battery eggs, i 'insulted' their xmas tree and didn't agree on their choice of carpet for OUR house), this is not unusual apparently as they have banned everyone other than DP too.

DP recognises their madness but as they are isolated and clearly have MH issues he remains in contact - always in the hope they will come round. I am secretly relieved that i don't have to deal with them, but i do feel so very sad for DP who is heart broken.

Anyway, we recently had a baby which DP hoped would soften them and heal the rift. PILs started going immediately overboard and without any consultation bought everything possible for the baby (cots, prams, clothes etc). Still not acknowledging me. I decided for DPs sake to extend the olive branch and sent a letter thanking them for the stuff and offering that when the baby was born to bring it for a visit. MIL responded quite chattily and said they would be in touch about a visit. They never mentioned it again.

So DP this week decided to bring it up again as he is very upset they have never seen their only gc. He spoke to his mum on Thurs and asked if we could pop by on Sunday (today). She said she would 'talk to' FIL (he is the instigator in all this) and get back to DP. She didn't till this morning and sent an email saying no that they have decided to sort the loft instead. Fair enough if she had said what about x and offered an alternative. But i think it is clear they have no intention of ever see DS.

However, MIL continues to send me chatty emails and posting boxes of crap from car boot sales every week for DS. They also send cards to DS from 'GP's' saying they love him.

I am so angry with them. DP is heartbroken. He is putting a brave face on saying 'well they do need to clear out the loft so i should have known that and it was wrong of me to ask them'. It makes me want to punch something weep.

I have no problem with the no contact with me and DS, but i think the cards and gifts will confuse him when he is older. They will just be strangers writing that they love him.

So WIBU to reply to MILs next email that we are disappointed they don't want to see DS and this level of contact is too confusing for all of us? I know i would and i should leave it to DP, but I just want to protect DP and DS from their insanity.

OK, any financial links need severing with your DP - make it clear it's not negotiable.

I would then not try to make firm plans, keep putting it back to your MIL, lots of "ok, let me know what works." don't try to arrange them to visit you, they don't actually want to. Take the decision (even if you don't tell your DP) that your PIL will only ever be people who are related to your DS but not part of his life. Play the game, keep saying they are welcome, but not bothering to put the effort in to make it happen. Bit by bit now your DS is here, your DP's "family" will be less and less these people and more you and your DS. Their ability to upset him by lack of interest will decrease.

Create your own family without them.

Oh no! It all sounds really mad. Perhaps for the time being no face to face contact is best? We have similar here (ie fil total nutter, v controlling, she is passive aggressive and has been completely ruled by him all her life etc etc. Was a house of horrors for DH). My fil knowingly chose complete cutting off of contact when he realised he couldn't control our lives (though he tried very hard to.) We now have no contact. It's sad, but we realise it's because things aren't how we would have liked them to be for our DCs. It's sadder for us than the kids, they don't know any different. Better a permanent physical distance than coming and going and lots of weirdness. Particularly if your DC spent any time at fil's house. That would be nigh on impossible for you to monitor! What a shame meaningful communication and respect is such a closed book for them. Particularly hard on your DP, he must be wishing for different.

we have never even mentioned them visiting us as we all know that would never happen. all we have ever offered is to bring ds over. there will be no 'let me know what works' because they never mention visits at all.

dp is not upset by my lack of interest at all, he thinks i am behaving really well and they are unreasonable. i will not offer again. i have told dp this. he agrees. we have decided we are what's important. we are getting married soon. dp will invite them and they will say no - i hope. otherwise that'll be a whole new drama.

Another thought - it's actually really good that your main contact with mil is email. That way you can really give thorough consideration to what you say, and as you will have all conversation in writing it can be shared with DP if necessary and you can keep saying the same thing e.g. 'let me know when you'll be able to visit.' You can't change mil and fil's relationship (it's their stuff) but you can decide your approach to them. And you can protect your own DCs from the weirdness. Your DP must feel a bit torn, but sounds like his boundaries with his mother are not particularly clear. Could have been like this all his life so he may not realise. He clearly feels utterly responsible for her.

sorry, bfing. so limited typing ability!

yes miss, that's right. she has opted out of any responsibility for herself but also orchestrates drama and steps back playing the victim 'innocently'.

The thing is, yes people often get a lot of support on mumsnet with abuse but it isn't often that people talk about the very real danger that victims who don't get help/become aware may repeat abusive patterns and ultimately become abusers. Whether that is by neglect or repetition (often both).

For that reason it is vital your DP needs separation and perspective on this for your child to grow up in a safe and healthy environment. Having a joint account with his mother, not recognising the abuse are worrying things. It isn't as simple as if they aren't interested "fuck em" because the sickness will still be there.

He recognises they are dysfunctional and that his childhood was unusual and that his dad is awful. But he also thinks they love him and that's what matters and that they did the best with what emotional tools they had - due to their horrible childhoods/upbringings.

he does have 'separation' insofar as he rarely see's them now and their actions are having less and less effect on him.

We should be moving soon and then their contact will be even less. DP would never have counselling.

See this worries me for him (and you) and I'm not sure I would want to marry him in these circs. I don't think it sounds like he has much separation or perspective and you really can only speculate on what will happen with them in the future. Breaking the cycle of abuse is really, really hard and the pull back to it can be really powerful especially when it happened to you as a child. It is great he has you, that's a really great sign but not a sign that if you try to just cut them out things will be fine I think - he is the crucial one, he has to confront and work through this stuff for your marriage and family to be ok I think. Avoiding it is not good and time is ticking now your son is already born.

It is very, very likely that they absolutely have not done the best they could with the tools they had btw.

Your dp needs to grow a pair. He is enabling them to do this to him.
Close the joint account.
Change phone number and e mail address.
If they don't want contact that's what it means.
What a desperately sad situation for you.
Perhaps your so would also benefit from counselling?

Ah, sorry x posts.
I wonder why that is op?
A refusal to even consider counselling indicates to me that he has bigger issues than his toxic parents.

I suspect he may (sorry wild speculation) not want to go to counselling because he is trying to avoid the whole thing. Other things like "I don't want to talk about it" and "fuck em" make me think that too. That's a pretty normal consequence of what sounds like a really horrible level of abuse that he went through from them and could be seen as a stage of healing in that it is a defence mechanism against the pain of having been hurt. But I do think that if you look right back to the origins of the IL's relationship you might see that they started out as damaged by abuse which caused them to forge a bond where she has fallen into "but he had such a hard time so we'll let him off being a decent human" which isn't dissimilar to what could happen here, potentially if dp doesn't deal with his abuse, although obviously on a much smaller scale than it seems to be with his parents. Anyway, with abuse you can't really force him to confront it but you can make choices about your own life that mean you and ds don't suffer from him not being able to confront it. Harsh as it may seem it does sound a little like you are making the same excuses for him not tackling things that he makes for his parents treating him badly.

This is a sad situation for you all Spuddybean.
I shouldnt be concerned about the effect of the gps on your son at this point. He is much too young for it to affect him for many years. Give him the cards by all means.

It is obviously very sad for your dp.
tbh I would carry on doing what you are doing.
He isnt against your behaviour in any way which is great.

It would be nice,in time,if your dp comes to realise that yes,they may well be doing the best they can with what emotional tools they have. Amd yes,if they were more mentally well, that they could show love for him better.
I do think that your mil,sending soppy cards,is,in her way,actually showing her love.

You sound like you are handling it all very well btw.

Is the joint account with your DH her only way of accessing £, if FIL is so controlling?

sorry all, popped out for a walk.

she doesn't put any money in the joint account or take any out. it was originally set up when he was away with the army but he continued using it and she could see what he spent his money on. when i came along and he stopped using it she got annoyed because she wanted to know what all our bills were (she also tries to find out where we buy stuff and calls them to see if she can get them to do it cheaper).

she holds the purse strings at home and spends all day gambling on the stock market and doing dodgy illegal deals with strangers on trading forums. fil has no say or idea what she does.

her soppy cards are a form of control, as if it is all okay her not seeing ds because she sent a card/shite from the car boot. i politely thanked her for a buggy she bought from the charity shop (a cumbersome tank of a thing we couldn't give away on freecycle) but said i had already seen what i wanted. she then sent dp nasty emails about how her generosity had been thrown back in her face etc.

offred - yes it is easier to do hat than address the pain, but he is slowly accepting more and more that their behaviour is damaging. also there is no chance i would tolerate any repetition, i have made that very clear (at the begining dp tried the withdrawal/sulk technique on me and i nipped that in the bud pretty quickly - also he is conscious of it and says he doesn't want to end up like them so if ever he veers towards any similar behaviours i point it out very quickly).

i make no excuses for him and he knows it!

thank you all for being so kind :)