definition of abuse?

[desparatelyseekingsomething]

I cannot work out whether or not I'm in an abusive relationship. I've read posts here, read the books, looked at the websites etc but am still confused.

I started wondering a couple of years ago when we had a row (about something minor) and oh said that he felt like doing something very violent to me. He didn't say that he would, just that he felt like doing so.

Originally I assumed that my relationship was normal. We argued a lot but so do many couples. I did not think that I'd ever consider leaving oh. However after we had the children he seemed to lose all interest in me (other than sexually). It was years before I managed to persuade him to go out for a meal occasionally (despite my saying that no relationship could survive the lack of any couple-type time together). We didn't even have "romantic" meals in - the children were small, slept badly and at least one was always awake. Now we do occasionally eat out but only if I arrange it and we have to be back before 10 as we only have him parents to babysit and he does not to leave them with the children later than this.

The above, I think, sums up how the relationship works. He never says outright that I cannot do something.He will say "yes go out" one day but then bring this up everytime that I ask him to help with the housework ("you had time to go out so..."). He also agrees to help around the house (we both work FT) but then doesn't do what he has agreed to. He does not want to get a cleaner (doesn't like someone else in the house) but then gets cross and aggressive when asked to help clean. He also shouts at me if I do something "wrong" (eg get a ding on my car).

Any suggestions please. We have been together for about 18 years, in our mid 40s, 3 children 7 - 12.

(Thank you btw, I mean I know how hard it is to go and have never consciously had to make that choice myself)

I have always made it clear to oh (ie before I articulated it v firmly before we got serious) that I needed to work and was not someone who could ever be happy not working outside the home. I need the mental stimulation of conversation about work related things with someone else.

I think that part of the problem is that oh cannot compromise. So if I want A and he wants B then I try to discuss it, I compromise, suggest C which is in the middle etc. He will not even discuss it, eventually often agrees to C but then labels it as my being controlling and getting my own way (even though C is not what I wanted but something which to me seems like an agreeable compromise). He then tells everyone that I always have to have my own way, saying "well you suggested C" etc etc and refusing to accept that I only suggested C because it was half way between A and B.

sounds tiring...

I haven't read the whole thread, but from your op I think there are some very serious red flags. My exp would say he wanted to hit me, then smash something up and say he felt like doing that to my face.

He also always used to "let me" go out with my friends, but would always invariably end up causing some kind of row afterwards that would escalate to horrible levels so in the end I would just not bother as I knew it would be more trouble than it was worth.

His behaviour escalated, and while he never actually punched me, he threw me down so hard that I hit my hand and drew blood, destroyed lots of my belongings and basically destroyed my self worth with verbal criticism and poison.

I will catch up with the rest of the thread, but yes, unfortunately it sounds like abuse to me.

I think when you get to the stage where you are second-guessing everything based on 'how is DH going to react to this?' rather than feeling that you have the freedom to act as you please and a reasonable expectation of support... then you are being steadily crushed.

I think it is deliberate even if it doesn't start out necessarily as malicious. When someone who is selfish wants their own way they will find a method of achieving it. When faced with a strong but reasonable person, the selfish person has to be pretty subtle in how they control them and build from there. Anything too obviously aggressive or threatening & you'd have walked long ago. Your 'weakness' is that, being reasonable, you compromise ... & he's been exploiting that.

Call it bullying, control or abuse I don't think it really matters. This low-level psychological manipulation means the end effect is that you begin to doubt your own judgement, lose confidence and eventually suffocate.

I really do not think that he is doing it deliberately but I do think that he, on some level, believes that women should/ought to mother men and that anything that goes wrong he sees as my "fault" as he still feels that his mother (ie now me) is entirely responsible for his well being. Therefore I think that when something goes wrong he looks to rationalise his feeling that it is my "fault" (derived from his feeling that his mother should fix life) and so invents a reason for its being my fault. So when he is looking after the kids and there is no bread for sandwiches he does nto think that it is his fault (for eating it all the day before) he thinks it is my fault (for not buying enough). This makes him angry with me and so he shouts at me.

So he has a lot of opinions about how you ought to behave and he deals with that be being angry if you don't behave how he wants you too?

To - tired! Bloody hell!

Oh dear. Another strange relationship with his mother. I have had two partners who put their mothers on a weird pedestal, like they were some kind of virtuous perfect pure example of a human being. They also both began the relationship by putting me on a pedestal, but when I inevitably fell off it, by being human, they would criticise every little thing I would do or say, and police what I wore etc.

They had a weird love/hate relationship with women. Like they were something to be revered, but only if they behaved according to their ideals, and we are not actually people in our own right.

So he has some weird beliefs about the role of women and he sees you in a mothering role? So what? It's no excuse. If he's a spoilt brat used to getting his own way, and if he's used to manipulating people and shouting at them to do his bidding.... then that's even more of an argument that how he behaves towards you is deliberate.

Ask yourself this. If a complete stranger walked into your house and started to talk to you the way your DH currently does, would you regard it as normal? Acceptable? Polite? If you arrived at the bakers' this afternoon, they'd run out of bread and they told you that it was your fault you didn't get their earlier would you say they were being reasonable?

I think you're over-analysing it.

'there'.. not their...

I probably am over analysing - I tend to do that with everything - but the problem is that there is lots of history and children and a life we have built together and I don't want to just "jump ship" if the problem is just that I'm going through some kind of mid life crisis and/or have unrealistic expectations as to what life is about.

It gets hard to know what is normal.

Everything seems so minor taken bit by bit so if someone said "what is the problem" then I'd sound completely pathetic.

I've been (over )analysing his comments over the last couple of days.

I've noticed that he will compliment my cooking, childcare etc but everything that he says about my working life is barbed - again very minor (lots of comments about how I'm such a great catch for them as I work so hard, such long hours etc, that it will be so amazing if I can succeed at x,y,z as it been so many years since I've done stuff like that before etc). I just feel a bit stupid for minding.

You're not jumping ship. You don't even need to know if what you're experiencing is normal. The 'great catch' thing may seem like a compliment but it's well and truly back-handed.

All that matters is that his remarks and behaviour are making you feel bad, unsure and damaging your confidence. Life with a partner that is supposed to love, honour and cherish you should make you feel relaxed and secure. You don't have to jump ship to object. Just be more assertive, stop letting the snidey remarks go and stop compromising.

And those remarks are evidence that he only supports you to do what he wants you to do and things you want to do that he doesn't agree with he tries to undermine. He's trying to train you like pavlov's dog...

You sound like me. Thoughts on Lundy, not wanting to rock the boat, blaming yourself, trying to fix the marriage, him not listening or offering respect. Oh once threatened to hit me and has not done it again but I do not trust him or respect him anymore. I wanted to work out if it was a 'seven year itch' etc, if I was unrealistic.

He suggested separation, I agreed, he then refused to go, I then suggested divorce (a couple of months later), he spent two evenings ranting about me, I dare not raise the subject again. Then he had the sense to go to Relate, two sessions later he insists either I go with him or I go alone. Full of suspision I go alone and she was lovely, and listened, I thought she would believe him and what he had to say, but at the end of the session she asked what help I needed to separate from him, asked me to contact my health visitor for support and its gone on from there. I now have a domestic abuse support worker (due to emotional abuse and him not leaving and me not daring to ask again) have social worker round monday to assess impact of emotional abuse on children (school and preschool are not worried so that is good) and solicitor appt on wed re a occupation order and non molestation order so I can get him out to have some freedom to think and to safely divorce him.

Sorry for talking about me...but step one to help yourself, go to Relate :) (£35 to £50 donation per hour session at our local doctors) they are what helped me start this, I was stuck in limbo like you are now. You don't have to tell him you are going. Just talking about your situation with a neutral person helps so much, and they can offer other support too, and help you find a way forward, whether that is with your OH or without him. I have no family but do have three supportive friends. Maybe contact any old friends you were close too? My oh has driven away a number of friends too, and helped me break contact from my family, and he has isolated me from his family as well.

Anyway much sympathy, suspect you are holding bits back, things that he has belittled and made out to be nothing...I would say it is emotional abuse, the critisism, undermining you, oh and they do like to do the 'you think I'm controlling, YOUR the controlling one.' and reflecting their behaviour back on to you. Don't believe him. I tried compromise with OH too...he wouldn't listen, then when I finally really pushed on issue to resolve it i would be told I had everything my own way...

You've made a first step by posting this, now make a second one to help things change for the better and get more outside support in place... :) (ie relate, family, old friends, health visitor? Sympathetic GP?) It feels good to be doing something rather than nothing and living in limbo.

And...sorry more stuff, dd1 loves OH to bits...so your not alone on that one. Its tough but for you to be a good a parent as you can be you need to be happy, things will work out for the best, just keep loving them and that is good enough.

Aaaannnddd that was a lot about me....! I'm a bit inward thinking at the moment. But I really hope you find a way to change things...I know just how oppressive life can be when you are always unhappy at home and feeling its your fault and nothing will ever ever change. It can change...I'm clinging on to that and everyone around me is telling me it will change and change for the better...

I'm glad things went that way for you netcurtains but I think relate is a bit pot luck and others have reported being bullied into staying with an abusive partner too. Women's aid, although also not perfect are a much better organisation I think.