when couples arent married, why should the house be in both of their names...

[woahthere]

My sister is in a long term relationship with her boyfriend who is the Father of their child. He has 2 children from a previous marriage.
The house is his, he bought it before they got together, however, she has lived in it with him for 7 years and paid equally for 5. The past 2 he has paid more because she had baby and was then on maternity leave, however, she buys all shopping, looks after the house, arranges trips out with the children and does all the cooking etc. It didnt used to matter to much to her, but only because she never thought about it before...but she now feels entitled to be equal in every aspect of the relationship and would like to have her name on the deeds to the house.
She has asked him but he went completely ballisitic at her and said that she was planning on leaving him. She has of course said shes not and tried to explain why it was important, but he wasnt having it, he thinks its all some big conspiracy. The way i see it is that its really disrespectful of him to feel like this about her and not think that she is worth the same. He thinks that because he is the one going and working, that he shouldnt have to share. He also mentioned to her that it wasnt fair because he put 20,000 deposit down to which she replied that she didnt mind agreeing that he could keep that if anything happened. He also thinks that because they have a baby together that is all the commitment they need because if anything happened it would all go to her anyway, but I dont think this is necessarily true.

I think he is being an ass about it and my sister is so upset with him that she really is starting to leave him. How can she put it to him that it is important, and why without him getting defensive. Can someone tell me all really valid reasons why it is important in a way that wont get his back up. Legal information would be helpful. All I know is that when I had to leave my ex, we werent married, we had 2 children and I was entitled to diddly squat and literally had to start again whilst he lived it up...I would hate for her to have to go through the same if anything happened.

A thinginyourlife. You are right. It's the oldest trick in the misogynist's book and I got sucked in to it. I did try to reason with him, but he turned it back on me and said 'you don't trust me, it's all about money with you'. Meanwhile I paid for groceries and bills with my smaller salary while he paid the mortgage.

It all went pear-shaped in the end of course because I couldn't endure it indefinitely. That level of of disrespect and disregard from him. I felt so used. It's sad. His biggest fear was losing his money but he lost his children. Every step of the way he's made things worse for himself by wanting to crush me! eg, I left him because he was a selfish bully. I left England because he said he'd never give us a penny. Then I asked for some maintenance. He ignored me. SO I went through the court. He's fighting it. if he fights it, I might move to Belfast so that I can have the support of the CSA.

The misogynist's trick is right. The only thing to do is to learn from your mistake and work your way back up from ground zero. I had a five year recovery plan when I left my x. I'm still not where I want to be though, 6 years on. It's a tough one, swallowing such a stark reality.

L01S
I would advise my daughter never to have a child with somebody unless is married.

Oddly enough, that's exactly what I advised DD and DS. It makes issues looking after the kids if you die early lots simpler, too.

How do you MAKE a man like this do the right thing though!?

Yes, same here. I know it's terrible but I bombard them with all the lessons I've learnt the hard way. Never, ever have a child unless you're married. And marry somebody you KNOW is a decent person with whom you are definitely compatable, who is your FRIEND as well as your partner.

To the oP's sister I'd say, I'm rebuilding my life. I think/hope I have my children's respect. They know their father contributes nothing and they've seen where he lives (and obviously in contrast, where we live). I have a few really close friends and although I'm not working right now, there are a few things in the pipeline. I do feel that I've paid a financial price for my foolishness, but I'm glad I didn't stick it out any longer than I did.

LO1S. I don't think you can. Sadly.

No. I feel for the OP's sister. If he wanted to do the right thing, he would. He doesn't want to and nobody can make him, and the OP's sister's obvious distress has left him unmoved.

All you can do is quit before you've given this selfish user any more years of your life.

My only take is that they should have a will. It's a complicated one and cannot be done by a post office etc. also if they are not married and they both heaven forbid die, then custody of the child is in question- he / she could be placed with ss whilst sorted.

If he doesn't want to marry, fine, but the will should reflect her contribution. A professional will have experience of this and ask the revelant questions. He won't live forever will he? Or your sis, so perhaps she could buy a 1 bed and let it out to provide an inheiritance for her child, with a will in place. I would not pay half a mortgage if I wasnt on the deeds. I or my child will not benefit in death.

It's not something to be defensive about, it's common sense- your sis must think of her ds in years to come. He/ she could be left with nothing although his mother has in effect been paying rent. Very lengthy and expensive procedure in terms of contest.

" never have a child unless married" . Not true. What if you are the one with a job and assets?

I speak from experience. My partner and I have a very difficult relationship. I owned my home before we got together. He has seldom worked.

We are not married . THANK GOD

I can see his point, she has only contributed financially to the house for a short time.

Why does she want her name on the deeds?

I do agree there should be a will, either leaving her a share or allowing her to live in the house if it ingerited by his three children.

November is willaid month, where a solcitior will waive his / her fees for a donation to charity. Maybe get your dsis to make an appointment for them both to draw up a will. Hopefully the solicitor will make him see sense or at least be able to discuss things with them.

Feckbox
Not true. What if you are the one with a job and assets?

don't have kids with someone who isn't working/won't support their kids financially; and won't bring joint assets to the marriage, either initially or later...

would be my take.

Shag whoever you like, but please don't have kids with a feckless partner.

Thanks for the tip! But it's too late now. :-/

I'd honestly never even met a feckless man before I got involved with my x. And that was my unravelling. I didn't know what to watch out for. I wasn't aware I needed to be so canny. My brothers and male friends and male cousins would never behave how my x has behaved and I just did NOT see it coming.

I'd advise OP's sister to have one last go at getting through to him, maybe she could buy a small one bedroom flat and istead of contributiing to his mortgage she could have her own property? If he won't even go for THAT then I hope that opens her eyes to the fruitlessness of staying with a man who would see you homeless basically if he's finishedwith you.

@ feckbox, did your partner mind your child while you were working though? If he did then that shouldn't be overlooked as 'not working'.

Money is power. But often I think the one with the job, assets (and the power) views the one looking after the child as a liability not an asset.

OneMoreChap, can I add to the advice to give one's children?? Not only should you only have children with your husband/wife, but you should make sure that the pair of you have similar earning potential so that one doesn't end up with all the power.

L01S don't know if you need similar earning potential, you certainly need a good understanding of what's involved in being a family...

A lot of men seem not to understand the hassle of getting young children up, fed, dressed, and off to childminder/school - and the pressure to get back for the kids to feed them, play with them do homework with them, bathe them and read to them - while also maintaining a house you can live in, and making sure there's something to eat for the working partner.

I think lots of blokes would value a SAHM a lot more if they'd done their turn. I condemn XW frequently, but she always worked, and would say I looked after our children well [I was just crap at everything else, apparently].

I like the idea of OP's sister buying a wee flat for herself and income, and something to leave her DC. If that doesn't sort out the man... I agree with your conclusion.

I am slightly puzzled by some of these responses.

AThingInYourLife said: "...the evil ex who took her legal due, so she allowed this man to financially fuck her over?...He knows she is vulnerable financially because he has put her there to suit himself."

Strictly, as has been observed, she put herself there; and he's taking his legal due, too. What's the difference, exactly, between his position now and his ex-wife's when they divorced?

Then Feckbox wrote: "I owned my home before we got together. He has seldom worked. We are not married . THANK GOD "

Presumably Feckbox is thanking God she's not married for the same reason the OP's partner wishes he hadn't been: unmarried, whoever brought the money keeps it.

VivienneMary wrote: ?If she has contributed to the house then she is entitled to have her name on the title deeds.? Should she take on just the asset, or the debt as well? Who should pay the gift tax involved?

Lois wrote: ?Never, ever have a child unless you're married.? I agree, but supposing marriage isn?t on offer; what do you do then? Because this seems to me to be where we are moving to.

?If he wanted to do the right thing, he would.? How has that worked out for him up until now?

But rather than arguing the toss about how much of a bastard he is, what are the two or three very best, most persuasive arguments for why he should marry the OP?s sister?

?I?ll leave if you don?t? is actually a very good argument for him not to marry her. If someone threatens you from a position of weakness you'd have to be mad to place them into a position of greater strength.

Likewise, "marry me because it will make me happy, which you should want" can of course simply be turned around, and then you have a Mexican standoff.

It's clear that wills need to be drawn up, but the form his should take is not simple given the various dependents, so it's not like there's something obvious and easy he should do but won't.

Onemorechap, I completely agree . The problem is fecklessness can take a long time to reveal itself

The difference is

1 that he is asking her to pay towards a house she has no stake in

2 that he is expecting her to look after his children but not looking after her

I agree that she put herself there, but the old "my ex fleeced me" saw seems to fool a surprising number of women.

He could be fair to her and still protect his assets. But he is not being fair currently.

Maybe I missed some posts but I don't think either of those is correct.

To the extent she has contributed to the mortgage, she has presumably been able to do so because he's funded other things, such as food and utilities.

I'm curious to know how the majority would have responded were the sexes reversed and a man was looking to have his name put on the deeds of a house his girlfriend owned prior to meeting her

The same if it was the same circumstances reversed. However it's interesting to think about it- if it was me I don't think I would want to give up my family home, or get married again - once bitten twice shy- but I would want a will and I would be fair and encouraging about sharing future wealth. Its a very hard question tbh:)

Could your sister ask him to come to an appointment with a solicitor who could spell out for him just how precarious things would be for her and your DN if the worst were to happen?
He could also ask about provisions to be made for his existing children and for his deposit should they split.

She could say something like, 'I hate arguing with you about boring crap like this. How about we go and talk to a solicitor to find out what most people in our situation do and decide when we've got all the facts?'

This would make it much more cooperative. As they're both going to sort out a problem it's more administrative and less personal.

Solicitors deal with the fallout from this all the time and are very keen on having people tie up their loose ends. She should be able to have a free initial appointment and the cost of getting everything watertight won't be too scary.

Hope she gets this sorted out. She is really not in a very secure situation ATM. You sound like a lovely sister to have OP!

Did your sister have a property when they got together?

If I was him, I'd make a will but I wouldn't get married.