Are there any surrendered wives on MN? Anyone who has decided to take a subordinate role?

[petrifiedperson]

NOT intended to be a nasty bunfight, I am just genuinely interested in other people's choices and have never actually met anyone who chooses to live like this.

[Herrena]

DH says he wants to be a surrendered husband so that I will do all his thinking for him. I told him to get stuffed.

I find it hard to understand why anyone would want a surrendered spouse, frankly! Or want to be one for that matter....

[BlameItOnTheCuervo]

I was talking to dh about this thread.

He laughed.

Then said that he'd hate it, far too much work.

Good job really, I'd be crap.

[CheerfulYank]

I read the book Fascinating Womanhood like this the whole time.

I do stay at home, in charge of the house, do most of the cooking, etc, but I am not by a damn sight "surrendered"!

[pointythings]

MM your description of what a Christian marriage is sounds like a description of how all good marriages (and other relationships) should be. After almost 20 years, DH and I are getting it right more often than not. He's a Christian, I'm a stone atheist. It's more about common human morality than about a faith label, IMO.

I haven't read the Laura Doyle book but it does sound as if she recognised she was abusive and then went too far the other way in dealing with it. I prefer a real marriage of equals, where everyone contributes according to their ability and their specific talents. DH does DIY and garden planning, I do car care, insurance and decorating, finance, parenting and housework are shared (we are both good cooks, I am better at baking, DH at serious meat )

I do all things school as DH is American and the differences are too great. We also trust each other to take decisions individually without always consulting the other, some things are not worth having a meeting over.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I'm a single woman and have surrendered myself entirely to me. I'm always 100% in tune with myself, anticipating my every need and I always get my own way without a struggle. Whatever I want the answer is a big fat 'yes, of course'.

[ike1]

I watched a programme about this it was hilarious! A surrendered wife is not supposed to even correct her husband if they take the wrong turning in the car. I think this scenario happened in the programme, and that Laura and her husband ended up rowing about it. I think her DH had this surrendered wife thing forced on him!!

[BartletForTeamGB]

This is how our marriage works as well:

"It says in the Bible (in Ephesians) 'submit to each other as to the Lord'. It IS possible to submit to each other - it means putting each other first. It's an attitude of mind and heart. Being considerate, kind, thinking of each other before yourself. This is making me a bit as I write it because of how often I fail to live up to this."

(I included the last bit of MM's quote because I too all too often fail to live up to it!)

Ultimately though, I've accepted (because I believe the Bible's teaching on this) that my husband is the head of my family, so if there was a final decision that we just couldn't agree on, it is his job to make the decision for the benefit of me and the family.

I agree the problem is the word 'submit' and how people understand it now. My PILs thought it was hilarious that it was in my vows and imagined a sort of SW without any opinions (they had met me so not sure how they thought it was going to work!), but I hope they see that our relationship is based on a mutual love of God, his word, and each other and that submission is characterised by care and consideration of one another.

[BartletForTeamGB]

This article puts the Christian viewpoint across nicely while dealing with some of the common misunderstandings:

www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/sermons/husbands-who-love-like-christ-and-the-wives-who-submit-to-them

[Shagmundfreud]

"she practices good self-care (she does at least three things a day for her own enjoyment)
she also practices receiving compliments and gifts graciously
she practices expressing gratitude (thanking her husband for the things he does)"

I like these three things. I do them already. I always thank Mr Freud for the many nice things he does for me (though I expect the same level of gratitude back).

[Shagmundfreud]

"A surrendered wife is not supposed to even correct her husband if they take the wrong turning in the car"

Oh that's hilarious.

I can see that for a certain type of woman this philosophy could have her laughing inside all day long.

[perfectstorm]

" And it twisted woman's intelligent, willing submission into manipulative obsequiousness in some women and brazen insubordination in others. "

Bartlet, I appreciate it works for you, and as I said it also works for my friend, but deeming women who are unwilling to allow someone else to determine the course of their lives/marriage "brazenly insubordinate" sticks in my gullet.

TBH this all reads as a way of putting tinsel on a cage.

[Dahlen]

I think one of the reasons this idea persists is because in the short-term it can seem to improve a struggling relationship enormously. In cases where the H has power and control issues, having a wife who submits will really play up to his ego, and during this phase he probably will react by being extra nice to her. Just like abusers are always extra nice to their partners after beating them. So it seems like a win-win situation. It is probably during this phase that all the internet blogs are written by SWs claiming this has rescued their marriage, etc.

However, it cannot last. The cycle of abuse means something will always happen to upset that dynamic, and that's when things turn ugly. And even for the naturally submissive, there is always something that will come up to prompt a disagreement with their other half. No one agrees with another human being on everything, however similar they are.

[joblot]

Isn't it just good old sexism? Men are better/brighter/bigger? If not, where are the surrendered husbands?

Crock of shite. We are all equal ffs.

Like the sound of cogitos world tho.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Of course it's good old sexism... :) It's like those 'Good Wife' manuals from the past. I found one once which had gems such as ..

... 'don't trouble him with the petty domestic problems of your day when he comes home from work. Men don't like women who complain. Make him comfortable and listen to his far more serious problems instead'

... 'pay attention to your grooming and apply fresh lipstick for when he returns. No man likes to come home to a slovenly wife'

[garlicnutty]

I'm loving your self-surrender, Cogito Way to go!

Thoughts of surrendered driving had me chuckling just now - Can you imagine a surrendered satnav? "200 metres ahead, do you think you should take the third or fourth exit?" "Continue on this road as long as you see fit."

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"Turn around when you feel good and ready and not a moment earlier you fabulous man, you"... "

[BartletForTeamGB]

"And even for the naturally submissive, there is always something that will come up to prompt a disagreement with their other half."

But there is nothing within biblical submission that says you need to agree with everything your spouse does or says. It is perfectly possible to disagree but then a decision needs to be made, one way or the other together, submitting to one another.

What can happen is that then the husband (and both examples can so, so often be seen here in this board) either lords over his wife and bullies her, or the wife continually snipes and criticises her husband to him and to others, denigrating him. Neither is biblical submission.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

If you don't have to agree with everything then it's not submission, it's cooperation. You cannot 'submit to each other' because submission, by definition, is a win-lose game. If no-one submits walking through the doorway, both try to go through together and get stuck...

[joblot]

cogito you are killing me today. I don't mean that in a submissive way, obviously. You are cooking on gas.

[garlicnutty]

You get this semantic discussion a lot on christian forums, Cogito. The ideal is, I think, that both partners give up their superego in favour of being a couple. The "submission" is a defeat of selfishness, not of the whole personality.

Of course that's most people's ideal of coupledom. The fact that the man has to be the default winner, in cases of dispute, gets up my nose immensely. In practice, when a couple really can manage a relationship this well, they quickly learn that each partner has their own areas of wisdom so the other should 'submit' to their expertise.

I like that this is spelled out in religion and, equally, loathe that it's used as an excuse for male dominance.

... I want a satnav that tells me I'm wonderful!

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I'm trying to imagine a biblically submissive couple trying to pick a sofa

Her "I like the blue one"
Him "I like the red one"
Her "You're quite right, the red one is the nicest"
Him "You're quite right, the blue one is superior"
Her "I submit to your will so we shall buy the red one, beloved"
Him "And I submit to your will, dear heart, and we shall buy the blue one"
Her "But we can't both submit to each other... what shall we do, beloved"
Him "Let us ask the Lord to decide as normal"

GOD "You again? Blue. And rather than bother me with future decisions it's lasagne for supper, Strictly on the telly and when you get to bed tonight ... ... doggy-doggy."

[KoPo]

I showed my DH some of the links and other SW sites out there, and jokingly asked if he liked the idea. His comment was a gruff "dont even go there!".

I asked him why not in a sweet little voice (propper girly voice). He was all "I want a partner not a doormat" and "go down that route I'm off".

Nuff said

[KoPo]

He did think the recipe section of one site was useful though

[Lueji]

Cogito,
You're lucky.

I find that even myself is not 100% submissive to me.

Typical dialogue:
Leave MN and do some house work
Why now? In a while.
You must do now because the house is a tip.
Oh, who cares? I need a long bath first.
But then you have wasted your afternoon.

Let's just say that sometimes I win and other times me wins.
:o

[amillionyears]

Cogito,re sofas,how true in our case.
Id say DH has 51% power,me 49%
Too simple an explanation but never mind.

re sofas,we just couldnt agree.
In end picked 1 that was somewhere in the middle of what we both liked.
Both ended up basically hating it!

But it did work as regards frosted glass.
I think there was a choice of 12 in the booklet we were given.
We were almost in complete opposites about it.
We then bought the one that was both our 5th option,and actually quite like it!