FIL's partner v ill, does it mean we have to forgive the past and support FIL?

[Dozer]

FIL's partner is seriously ill in hospital following a stroke. This was the other party in the breakdown of FIL's marriage to MIL (MIL became v ill and died soon after and the behaviour of FIL and new partner towards her and his teenage DC was abysmal). Associated problems between DH, siblings and their father/partner, never really resolved.

For various reasons FIL has seen less and less of DH and his siblings and their families in last 15 years or so. Both FIL and partner are alcoholics. They travel a lot. Partner is difficult (severe depression, feels rejected by FIL's family, gives FIL a hard time for spending time with his now adult DC). We see them maybe two or three times a year for a v short time, eg they visit for an hour for a GC's birthday party, or attend events like christenings and elderly relative's birthdays. Our DC don't know them well, which isn't a big deal to us, the main issue IMO is FIL's poor rsp with DH and his siblings.

DH has spoken to FIL a number of times saying he'd like to see him (and partner) more etc, made invitations / invited ourselves to visit for the day etc, but no change.

DH is angry with his father but also gets v upset and angry if I or his siblings criticise him or attempt to discuss the alcohol issue. This used to cause rows but in recent years less so because I watch what I say and DH has got used to more distance with his F.

When the stroke happened we visited FIL (about an hour away) and DH also briefly visited his partner in hospital. This was the first time we had visited their home in 4 years. FIL obviously v upset and it's unclear how the recovery will go, it was a bad stroke. Apart from alcoholism FIL is well and luckily the hospital is near their home and they can afford help if needed.

DH is now wanting to visit his dad regularly, eg every two weeks, take time off work etc to support him. Wants to take DC to visit FIL to cheer him up etc.

I feel sorry for FIL and his partner but am, selfishly I know, angry with FIL and worried about the impact on DH and our family/relationship (other problems at the moment and small, demanding DC).

Anyone got any advice?

First and foremost, your DH sounds like a lovely man for wanting to make the effort after all the problems and knock-backs. If that's the kind of personality he is and if that course of action would give him pleasure then support him as much as you're able. You have to protect your DC, of course, and you're well within your rights to say you don't want your relationship to suffer or anyone to get hurt. But he's probably thinking 'they'll be dead soon' or similar, and that can be a powerful motivator.

In my own family my horrendously badly-behaved grandmother was estranged from DM for decades. DF, trying to protect DM and the rest of the family, was always dead against her getting back in touch. Although he had a point it created resentment because his parents, my other set of grandparents, were a big part of our lives. They eventually met up again a few times shortly before she died and, even though it wasn't a happy ending, I know my DM got some satisfaction out of the reconnection.

Tricky.

I agree with Cogito that your husband sounds lovely but he also sounds very confused - which is often the result of growing up with a selfish fuckwit - I think he should have some counselling to explore his feelings about his father.

From my point of view I would say FIL has made his bed and should now live with the results without expecting his adult DC to help him when times are tough since he has shown them little love or care for them in decades. It's not clear from your post if FIL actually does want any help though or whether your DH is hoping that FIL having this stroke will actually change his behaviour towards his DC and that there will be some sort of resolution and reconciliation if your DH 'helps' him at this time of need. If the latter is the case then I think he will be sorely disappointed and this could be a very difficult and hurtful time for him as he comes to realise this.

If the motivation for contact comes from your DH then I would be very careful with how much contact your DCs have with FIL until there is some real evidence of change in him. Your 'job' is to protect your own little family and make sure that if the shit hits the fan for your DH that he has somewhere safe and loving to retreat to.

This is a hard one.

I've been estranged from my mother for 7 years now, though I haven't lived with her since she left with her now-dh when I was 12.

The only time it got hard was when my vvv dgran was dying, because gran lived with my mother - I could only visit her when she was in regular respite care. At her funeral, my mother blanked me and dh.

I'm glad my children have no contact with her, her toxic behaviour and her rather scary narcissist husband.

I would tread very carefully, especially where the dc are involved. It's not their job or role to "cheer up" an alcoholic old man they hardly know - that's putting too much pressure on them, IMO.

How much is your dh acting out of guilt, or misplaced responsibility. Is he hoping for a genuine reconciliation, or is he trying to make it better from when things went wrong years ago? Is he hoping for more contact with his dad if/when the partner dies? Does he blame her for the bad relationship with his father?

It's tricky and I don't envy you.

If I've learned anything in my years of therapy (30 Yeats since my mum left, I'm still with the psychologist!) it's that noone is responsible for anyone else's happiness. Your children are definitely not responsible for "cheering up" your fil. Whatever else happens, your dc must not be made or even hinted that it is their role to do this. My mother blamed me for her unhappiness (I refused to go and live with her, preferring to stay with my dad and flabby step mum). It's taken me a very long time to throw off that feeling that I'd let her down, when of course it was the other way round!!

That's my fabby step mum! I'd like to point out that she is not and never has been flabby, unlike myself!!

I think your dh is chasing a dream of the father he wants (not the father he has).

I think it will take your dh some time to realise this will not change his father, he will remain selfish/self absorbed and toxic (if he is an alcoholic).

I think it is your job to support your dh in his journey of discovery with his dad, what harm if he visits and takes the children to visit, just support him and reassess in 6 months.

As bad as FIL is, he is the only parent your dh has left, and this sudden illness of smil's may be making your dh nervous about his father's health. Just do whatever is best for your dh.

You very much for the thoughtful replies and sharing experiences.

Yes cogito, DH is very caring, one of life's eternal optimists and made of tough stuff, always picks himself up. Am worried though, is rubbish for him to put himself out there and be rejected time and again.

Don't think he expects much change in the relationship with FIL, he has made progress in realising he can't change his F (without counselling, which he is afraid would open a can of worms) but maybe is hoping for some positive change deep down . FIL does seem to want support , he has no siblings or real friends.

Think I need to be more supportive, is DH's family after all, prob is am bloody furious with FIL on DH's behalf and find it hard to hide it. Guess that won't help, must try harder!

Also take the points about the DC. Not too concerned about the odd visit as they are small and likely to regard it as a day out with a rampage round a big house! FIL lives in lovely seaside location with massive playground next to house and is cheerful and nice to DC when he sees them. But am not doing the journey every other weekend with DC, DH might need to go alone sometimes.

don't think DH has good judgment when it comes to FIL (one of our previous rows was about him wanting toagree to a request from FIL to have DC overnight or a trip out when bigger, I said to DH no way due to the alcohol issues, DH was more concerned about upsetting FIL than the DCs' safety, when normally he is sensible. Another was scrambling down the edge of a high cliff following FIL on a walk - FIL often takes horrible risks). He will do a lot to please him. So I need to try to manage that a bit.

Weegie, sorry about your gran, and your toxic mum, sounds as though therapy has really helped, and thanks for the advice.

Your FIL is a very weak and spineless man who allowed himself to be further manipulated further by his awful sounding partner (why was I not surprised to read that she too is an alcoholic). He turned his back on his first family to be with this alcoholic woman and she probably told him that she did not want him to see his first family. He made a choice and he chose her, a fellow alcoholic. These two have and continue to put alcohol before anything and anyone else, nothing has really changed has it.

Your DH also has FOG which is an acronym for fear, obligation and guilt. Not all that surprising either really growing up with such a toxic awful role model for a father. It has affected him markedly. His father has failed his son, your DH, abjectly. I would give him Toxic Parents by Susan Forward to read.

Counselling may make your DH feel worse to start with but your DH certainly could do with talking to someone in a safe and controlled environment. He should therefore not dismiss counselling. Counsellors though are like shoes, he needs to find someone who fits in with his approach.

Will your DH also be willing to talk to Al-anon; they are very helpful to family members of problem drinkers. I would also think twice about taking the children to see FIL, infact I would not do so. They are not going to get anything at all positive from the experience and it is certainly not their role to cheer up FIL.

Yep attila, that's about right .

Also the FOG, never heard of that before but it is spot on and would like to read more on that.

Have suggested al anon to him, and found useful information online for myself online after tips on here, but DH just won't engage with it, although he acknowledges there's a problem. If he gets low / stressed / angry / upset with thie situation will encourage him (again) to try counselling.

Am sure "toxic parents" would be useful for him, but daren't suggest it, he would hit the roof at the very suggestion!

When I see all the threads on here about affairs/alcohol dependency and twunts
I often think that FIL is an example of the long-term fuck-ups and damage to whole family and really hope some of the youngeer twunts see the error of their ways.