Friends with a flasher?

[catflap]

I would appreciate parents' opinions on this one, as it no longer affects just me and OH.

(apologies for the length of the background info - but I kept it as to the point as I could!)

About 5 years ago, OH and I were great mates with a couple that lived a few roads away from us. OH and her met at work and introduced me and her OH to each other and we all got on really well. Me and her got on especially well and were really close. We used to go out loads together and all was great.

Until I called her one night to find her OH had been arrested and kept overnight. All was a bit uncertain and secretive for a while until it appeared he had been on the local police's wanted list for 3 years for flashing in the local park whilst out on his jogging trips.

She considered leaving him, but decided to stay with him: he had said he couldn't face us any more and didn't want to see us ever again and after a few briefs contacts with her, it all got a bit tricky and we haven't seen each other or spoken since. There were a couple of letters between she and I where it did appear that he had gone to court and just received a fine, as they could only prove one incidence. He had refused to go to couselling saying he had learnt his lesson.

Today, I was driving past her house - route to the local leisure centre - and she was outside so I stopped and she smiled and I wound the window down etc and we chatted and then she invited me in for a cuppa which I did as I was happy to chat and I do miss her friendship a lot. OH was out. It was great to catch up and hear all her news - the two of them seem quite happy: he has apparently been making efforts beyond all belief to be the perfect partner and has been keeping it up all this time. She has some doubts but no concrete evidence of anything untoward to make her feel she has made the wrong decision. We made a tenuous arrangement to perhaps go to the laisure centre together - we have mobile numbers etc

My question is, in anticipation of any future events, is this a friendship that can be re-kindled in any way? Should it be, or should it be avoided? I could only do so if we had a chat with him about it: I am not just picking up as we were before as if nothing had happened.

The big issue is, though, that has changed since this all first happened, is we now have dd. I have protective feelings I didn't particularly have before - clearly sexual crimes and children don't mix. Or am I making a big deal out of this? If we did socialise again, it would only be us adults out, of they round here when she would never be alone with him - and does his crime mean he IS a danger to kids? I can't get it straight in my head.

I would welcome your views. What would you do?

I miss my friend and miss the socialising we used to do. Should I be forgiving? Is the issue not that bad? Does time make things better? Does having dd now make this a different issue?

(In case anyone wonders, I thought about this before putting it on and although it is possible this could be read by said people, it is extremely unlikely given that they do not have kids and I feel it is anonymous enough: and if it did get traced, I don't care.)

i was 15 when i was flashed at and i slept with the light on for three weeks and refused to go any where on my own
just imagine if he did to your little girl and traumatised her in this way at small age
if he dont care who he's getting it out for why should he care if its a little girl
i'd meet up with your friend at your house only and never socialse with her hub unless you have to
after all it is a crime and very scary and intimidating

Sorry, I wouldn't be friends with him, he's clearly a bit weird: it's patently not normal or acceptable to be a flasher. I don't see why you couldn't be friends with her though but it would likely be 1:1 between you and her presumably. I don't think the fact that you have a dd is relevqant really, flashing doesn't = paedophilia, dodgy though it is.

Is flashing a dangerous activity? I know it can be experienced as threatening but do they ever go on to attack people? I don't actually know but personally would guess not. I must admit I would be inclined to treat this in the same way as someone who had had an affair, or someone who had had problems with drugs - sad, unfortunate, but not really much of my business.

I can only go by old experience:i was reading the local paper one day and noticed that someone from our estate had been arrested for the same offence (i remembered that as a kid we had all been very wary of this man).however, he was a friend of mine's dad;he worked with my dad and his wife worked with my mum! when i realized who i was reading about i nearly died as my friend at work was dating his daughter (small world i know!)anyway, i was sworn to secrecy and i kept to that . my dad had to go down to the house and "talk" to him etc. now, i see him. he's an old man;he cares for his grandaughter with his wife etc. he's an old man and i reckon he probably regrets the night he did what he did.i don't think i'd leave my kids with him i have to admit but i think he's a very sorry old man who just wants to live his life.

I would just rekindle your friendship (you and her) and leave the OHs out of the equation. In any event he may not be happy to socialise with you both again anyway (embarrassment etc). Consequiently your dd shouldnt even come into the situation with him.

Ive recently rekindled a friendship with a great person whose dh's company did some building work (extension and other renovation works) and made an absolute cock up of it and then overcharged us etc. We fell out with the dh and his wife and I drifted apart but I sent her a letter just before xmas and we've spoken loads since then (just avoided talking about the house)

I say go for it esp as you really like each other

ah, should have mentioned, in support of her OH, she said ages ago, she would not be friends just be and her as she felt this was disloyal to him - so it's both of them or neither of them.

No, I understand flashers do not ever go on to attack anyone - it's more of a thrill issue than a power/attack issue and just for their own personal enjoyment.... My sister has been flashed at - I know what it does to someone. He blamed it at the time on sexual frustration...

If we did resume a friendship and he met dd, he would never be allowed in a room with her on their own, that i am certain of. Is it possible to have a guarded friendship with someone??

I appreciate comments so far - interesting points to think about, thanks.

I think that you should let your heart decide.

If you CAN still be friends with them, and you want to (and this is where I'm slightly ashamed to admit that I'm not sure I could. I think I'd be too awkward/embarrassed/painfully aware of it all the time to be normal around them) then absolutely go for it. Your instinct will be to protect your dd, and so long as you don't leave her alone with him or anything you won't be endangering her.

I reckon they could do with friends like you. Can't be easy for either of them.

Most men who are sexually frustrated don't go and get their penises out in public though do they? Oh well, if she will only be friends if it's with him too then I guess in your position I would probably ask her for coffee and if she declined leave it. I was flashed at when I was about 14 and it didn't bother me at all but I can't think it would have been nice if I'd have been younger. (gents loos opposite a girls school in a park, prob wasn't just me)

I would have no qulams about being friends with her at all. But it isn't quite that simple, is it, as she may well feel lukewarm towqrds you anyway, if you are ostracising her DH.
I think I would probably go on instinct around him. It does seem to be a f*d up sort of thing to want to do, with a particular motivation to scare or embarrass women. It's not the same sort of crime as stealing library books, iyswim. Was he flashing at women or kids? (I spent my school years being flashed at by men in the bushes outside my school - none of them actually DID anyhting). I don't suppose he would be of danger to your dd, but even if he doesn't act on it, i don't see how he can have changed his feelings wothout help and counselling. So i would feel weird. But on the other hand, he has been convicted, the justice system has taken care of his sentencing etc, so if you feel ok about it, maybe the right thing is to resume the friendship if you want to.
I think whatever you feel you wnat to do will be ok.

Sorry - x posted with your post about her only wanting friendship if her DH is included. I think she's being a bit unrealistic there. And it's holding you over a barrel a bit - freindship on her terms or not at all. I wouldn't like that - even though I would be even=handed about considering freindship with him, I wouldn't liek to eb co-erced like that. Hmmmm.

if she insists it is with the two of them, then i would say no tbh.
that is not fair to you, she shouldn't dictate who you mix with
I would never forgive myself if my children were involved with anyone who has a sex crime conviction.
Sorry, but it sort of brings out the primeaval in me.
IMO it isn't like robbery or smoking, you can't just stop having weird sexual thoughts.. you may be able to stop the flashing, but there is still something not right...i know that sounds a bit daily mail of me..
I know it must be hard, but for me the kids come first and although he has been punsihed and "served his time2 as it were, the fact that she has doubts speaks volumes. If the person who lives with him is not 100% then I would back right off again.

If it was just seeing her, no probs...but both of them- no way!!

I'm going to tell you a true story, this is not bullshit.
We used to live near a seemingly happy family, husband, wife, two kids, good occupations, nice house, normal family... but all was not how it seemed. Unknown to us, his friends and the local community he, the nice man, friend to all, was a flasher. He had been charged and received 'treatment' for his problem over a number of years. However the problem escalated and he went on to 'befriend' children, girls and boys in parks or anywhere he could speak to children, apparently he used to 'hang around' the local brownies and scouts. He was eventually caught by a member of the public walking her dog who called the police. In his car was photographic evidence of his friendships with these children. He went to prison, his wife and family had to move house. His wife chose to stand by him but his local friends did not, us included. I've not heard from them since and I do not intend to have any contact with them again. If I saw them in the street, I would not be rude, I would say hello/how are you? but that would be it.
I don't know whether telling you this helps, but I would think very carefully about putting your own family in a position of risk.

Thanks again - this is good stuff!

orlando - nice message, thanks

oops - I agree with your points. However, do have to say, and to others with this comment - I don't feel it is unfair of her to make demands on teh friendship, issue terms etc. Even if it did happen the same as before, she was only stating how she felt and I was fine with that - I knew how she felt it could work and that was fine, so I don't have an issue with that.

No, most sexually frustrated men don't just get their penises out in public and I doubt the thoughts will ever go away. Can you be blamed/judged for your thoughts? Or is it only how you act upon them. Of course, in any case, it is subjective. I'm just not sure how I think right now!

And, hm, it seems some guys are NOT 'just' flashers...

Lots to bear in mind - thanks again.

i feel very sorry for this woman and the position her oh has put her in but something you must remember is that it is a KNOWN FACT that this behaviour is normally an escalation, without behavioural therapy it can and does continue and will eventually develop into something much more serious. it is NOT a small thing it is a symptom of sexual perversion and i would think very carefully before you resume an association of any kind with him

Ah you see these posts are seeming to prove my theory wrong. I always thought of flashing as fairly harmless and self-contained behaviour.

i am a bit further down this glass of wine now
and all i can think is

NOOOO

please don't take that sort of risk with your child...your friend will understand.
she has chosen to stick with him- bt has her doubts.

I would just accept tat at this stage in your life they are not on the agenda.
If they split, then fine, but your child's safety musty come first

What if he did do something untoward and you obviously know aboout his past...
i would think you would never ever forgive yourself..
sorry, it just doesn't sound right tbh.

i wouldn't go for it, i think there;d always be weirdness there if you didn't feel comfortable with it, which i don't think you are.

as for her, if my DH was done for flashing, i'd leave him, i think flashing is a bit like seriously threatening someone, you're not actually doing anything but it can be extremely scary for the flashee (is there such a term???) especially if she is alone, young etc

doomed, i think. can you imagine yourself being relaxed with him? sitting drinking wine or enjoying a meal? every time you look at him it will cross your mind. he will see in your eyes that you are thinking about it. it will make for many an uncomfortable silence.

if you go there with your child, you will 'guard' her - they will notice this, again, not going to make a good relationship!

i dont think it can work tbh, not if you have concerns or just feel about him.

mytwopenceworth - that's it exactly, I think.

Reading all the messages, I have come up with many fors and againsts but when it comes down to the reality of actually going out with him/having him round, then what you describe will be exactly it and I can't do it.

It basically boils down to the fact that I am disgusted by what he did and I can't forget that and I will never trust him again. Not a good basis for a friendship.

I will hope that maybe she is happy to come with me to the leisure centre sometimes and hope it never ventures further than that from her point of view.

Many thanks for all your input ladies - always good to hear all the perspectives on these things!