Up til 4 in the morning rowing! Oh and there's more to come tonight. Yippee!!

[amibi]

Afternoon all!

Oh my god where do I start?....

Me and dp have been together 9 years. We love each other to pieces, we have a 5 yr old dd who is our world, but we're so different.

On one level it feels like we're soul mates, but on another, it feels as though we're anything but and are, if anything, enemies. I know that's a harsh word, but we seem to be locking horns so much and unfortunately it's nothing new.

DP has difficulty controling his anger and goes through phases where he's controling it well. However, if things are going wrong with work, or dd is particuarly difficult, he's like a different person and that person is someone I DON'T want to be around.

Last night for example, we had a good night watching a film, shared a bottle of wine and had a good chat after the film had finished. Then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, we start arguing and eventually it got out of control and he went downstairs because it was getting quite loud and obviously we didn't want dd to hear anything.

He doesn't realise that he can come across so aggressive and actually quite intimidating. When I tell him this, he basically says that if I can't take it then I know where to go, but when I say that's fine by me, he'll back track and say that he's sorry if he's upset me but I drive him to it. I hate being shouted at and I don't know where all this anger comes from. After a while, I know he can't even remember what we were arguing about in the first place and then it just basically turns into a slagging match.......I know!! How mature!

So I got about an hours sleep last night and on his way out to work he says, I think we need to talk tonight. YOU THINK??!! The thing is though, I know nothing will get solved, he'll tell me that he'll try harder but then gradually his anger will come to the forefront again.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect and I certainly do have a part to play in all this, but I am no where near as aggressive, rude, disrepectful as he is.....or can be anyway. He's not like that all the time. He can be the completely opposite.

Please, I don't know what to do anymore. I don't want him to leave, but I'm running out of options.

Thanks for reading. Would really appreciate any advice.

It seems like he goes around in circles and makes excuses for poor behaviour.

I would say when he tries a conversation, say 'go on then' and listen stony faced and give no response until he has finished. I wonder if he will be so 'angry' then or he will come across quite pathetic and not being pandered to.

Morning

Yeah, i'm fine thanks olgaga.

Still feeling unsure about things obviously, but we can't just go over the same ground again and again. We did have another talk last night, but i'm not sure if he realises just how serious I am when I say "I can't, I WON'T be spoken to and shouted at like that ever again!". He agrees that he was wrong and says that he'll do everything in his power to make sure it doesn't happen again, but I don't know......it's like there's something missing when he says this. Hope it's not sincerity. Maybe because we've always had such a firery relationship, he doesn't really believe me when I say that I will leave if he carries this on.

Pleased to hear you are ok. It may help you to do a bit of reading about the practical side, particularly if you're unmarried. I am not trying to pre-empt anything here, but you may want to start looking at issues around finance, housing, your rights etc:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links
It is useful if you can get to grips with the language of family law and procedure, and get an understanding of your rights, BEFORE you see a solicitor. If you are well prepared you will save time and money.
Children

If there are children involved, their welfare, needs and interests are paramount. Parents have responsibilities, not rights, in this regard. Shared residence means both parties having an equal interest in the upbringing of the children. It does not mean equal (50/50) parenting time - children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order - ?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance. Information and links to these can be found in the Directgov link below. Residence and Contact Orders are likely to be renamed Child Arrangements Orders in future.

Always see a specialist family lawyer!

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law.
Co-operative Legal Services offer DIY/Self-Help Divorce packages, as well as a Managed Divorce service. Their fee structure is more transparent and they have a telephone advice line as well as offering really good advice on their website:
www.co-operative.coop/legalservices/family-and-relationships/
You can read advice and search by area for a family lawyer here:
www.resolution.org.uk/

You will also read good advice and find a family lawyer here:
www.divorceaid.co.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if you can find any recommendations or feedback.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. This can help by encouraging discussion about arrangements for children and finance in a structured way in a neutral setting. However, it only works if both parties are willing to reach agreement.

If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation. This is important because while a Mediator should have knowledge of family law, and will often explain family law, they are not there to give tailored legal advice to either party - so it?s important to have that first.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question, because if you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:
www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm
You can also find out about Legal Aid and get advice on the Community Legal Advice Helpline on 08345 345 4 345
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/UsefulContactsByCategory/Governmentcitizensandrightscontacts/DG_195356

Legal Rights and issues around contact are further explained here:
www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown
www.maypole.org.uk/

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you have access to, and take copies or make notes. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

If you have no access to financial information, or you are aware that assets are being hidden from you, then obviously you will not be able to reach agreement on finances. If there are children, as you cannot divorce without adequate arrangements being agreed on finance and children, you will have to apply for a financial order anyway. If there are no children, and you are unable to agree on finances, you will also have to apply for a financial order (follow the Direct.gov links below). This seeks financial information from both parties going back 12 months. So it is in your interests to act quickly once you have made the decision to divorce.

If you are married, the main considerations of the Family Courts where parties are unable to agree a settlement are (in no particular order of priority):

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

CSA maintenance calculator:
www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Handy tax credits calculator:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/payments-entitlement/entitlement/question-how-much.htm#7

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Parenting issues:
www.theparentconnection.org.uk

Other Support for Women ? Children, Housing, Domestic Violence
www.womensaid.org.uk/ and refuge.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 2000 247
www.ncdv.org.uk/ - Helpline 0844 8044 999
www.gingerbread.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 802 0925
Housing www.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/relationship_breakdown
(Note that there is usually an appropriate link on these websites for England, Wales and Scotland where the law, advice and contact information may differ.

Olgaga, thanks so much for that.

I'll have a look at the links when i've got a minute.

We're not actually married and it's sounding as though, if I did decide to leav, that might actually work against me. I'll have a look anyway.

Thanks again.

You don't get the same protection but there is some protection when children are involved.

You have to balance that with how your life is. How will you feel in a couple of years if this continues? You won't be able to hide it from your DD forever.

He needs professional help. He sounds like he loves you but has personal issues which he can't really control.

As to why does he control himself in front of strangers, his boss, people on the street, etc. and not you. He is close to you, and so feels that he can allow himself to be himself in front of you, which is double edged, as you get the bad things as well as the best ones. And anyway, if he doesn't get help for his anger he will eventually lose it also with someone else, like his boss, co-workers, etc. It's only a matter of time.

Also - although, as I said, I think he needs help - you might try and let go of small things, as you said you don't do that and they escalate into bigger things. Takes two to row.

"He went on to explain that again, I drive him to it and I know how to push his buttons. I know sometimes I should back off and i'm not good a letting the little things go, which then turn into big things, but regardless, I shouldn't be yelled at and sworn at."

That's a stupid explanation, but he probably feels that way, and it will take him time and help to realise that even if people push his buttons, how he reacts it up to him. But this requires a degree of self-clarity which he doesn't seem to have.

Of course you shouldn't be yelled and sworn at. But you can try and avoid going there while he gets it into his head.

Thanks Distance.

Actually, we pretty much said just that last night. We agreed that his reactions weren't necessarily right or justifiable, but I will try to back off more and accept that this is something that he struggles with. He's not a bad person, but nevertheless, yes, he's a person who needs help.

I read the bit where 'he says he'll do everything in his power to not do it again'

my DF does this and it often comes across as very evasive, because what comes out of your mouth is under your control so to imply otherwise is almost abdicating responsibility that's at least how I read it.