Friend in a cult? What to do

[Lovingfreedom]

This is a total diversion from my usual posts and comments. A friend of mine, (ex-colleague who I was friendly with rather than close friend), has recently been keeping closer contact with me through Facebook. She left a fairly corporate administrative job two years ago to go travelling with her partner. They are both in their early/mid-thirties and a long standing relationship, no kids. They have been going around European cities, playing and recording music which she posts on Facebook. I've noticed for some time that she looks a bit out of it in some of the videos (possibly stoned) and this is quite different from the quite conventional, very professional/efficient role she had with our previous employer. But just thought she was letting her hair down etc.

Anyway, she has sent me quite understanding and supportive messages during my break-up with my ex-H and usually these border on spiritual, I suppose.
Last message she sent was a bit different though. She's previously mentioned very loosely would I play on some of their music, and I loosely agreed (but in that kind of what that it's unlikely to happen due to being in different countries etc)...anyway.

Latest message talks about how she and her DP in particular had this sudden life-changing experience. Not spiritual or religious as such, she says, and specifically says not a cult. But different way of life to most people etc etc.
She seems to be sharing this with me, but without any specifics and maybe with a view to arousing interest and the loose agreement has become 'you agreed to come and visit...' although they don't seem to know where they will be. I don't know if I'm explaining this very well...but I showed some of her message to my friend and he said straightaway 'you're being groomed...it's a cult'...

Now my concern is not that I'm being groomed...and I am not feeling in danger at all here. But I think that this assessment might be right and I am concerned about my friend. What, if anything, can I do for her? I have details for her parents, although I don't know them at all well. Should I contact them with a concerned message? Should I just keep in touch with her and make clear that I will be there if she wants to talk? I won't do anything dramatic like say 'you're in a cult, you have to get out'....

I could say, well we're not close friends, let someone else worry about it, but I get a sense that she doesn't have many close friends, even when she was based where I am (she's Australian, was living in UK) and is very dependent on her partner. What would you do?

You don't actually have any reason to think she's in a cult that I can see. She may just be getting into alternative lifestyles. Don't jump the gun, just keep in touch.

It might be worth mentioning to her sensitively that you wonder if it doesn't sound a bit "cultish" ( if it does). She may not agree, but further down the line, she may remember your comment and read about cults and find some patterns she recognises.

was involved in something a bit like that and by the end I felt a bit traumatised and did recognise that it was a bit like a cult and I left. I wished maybe someone had said something to me on those lines to at least plant the seed in my head.

That said, I actually got some good stuff out of my "cult", so its not always straightforward ...

Maybe a little more detail...What do you think....Talking about profound change, sudden insight, many friends & family members have fallen away since we stumbled into this way of life. Her DP started to 'receive insights and clarity about life and our place in it'. Also mentions 'inner and outer changes and experiences that can not be explained in the normal world'. Is that just alternative lifestyle? Not being daft...I'm very much not into any of this kind of thing and have little experience.

If someone is in the grip of a cult there's little you can do except say in every email, "I'm here if you want me."

One thing you could do is make sure someone else is with you when you read the emails - deliberately don't open them while you're alone. It's easier to stay objective if someone else is with you and you can discuss the contents.

The fact is that if she is in a cult, she will try to recruit you. It's crazy not to take that on board.

That still isn't necessarily a cult, Lovingfreedom. Sometimes spiritual experiences do separate you off from the world in many senses, especially if you're with like-minded people. Many ashrams are examples of this, and they are not automatically cultish.

There would really need to be talk of a particular person playing a leading role for me to start to be suspicious - and even then I wouldn't be able to class it as any more than a suspicion. If there's a systematic cutting off from friends and family, relinquishing of possessions, and talk of a leader who can do no wrong, then I'd be thinking cult.

Has she mentioned a specific organisation or group? It could be worth Googling.

Even if she hasn't mentioned a name, try Googling some of her phrases - she will probably be parroting stuff word-for-word.

FWIW it may not necessarily be a cult, but someone like you describe her is a prime candidate for this stuff

A friend of mine has been completely taken in by a cult leader. He's persuaded her to completely alienate herself from all family and friends and believe some really 'out there' things. We (her old friends) have very little contact with her now. We can only hope that one day she can break free of him, and we would welcome her back with open arms. You just wouldn't believe the half of it.... :(

I'd leave well alone. They're grown-ups, they can make decisions for themselves and what they're describing about various changes and revelations could all be explained as 'doing too much pot'. If you're uncomfortable with the nature of the messages.... and I have a few uber-Christian FB 'friends' that assume what you need most in a crisis is a verse from the Bible accompanied by a picture of a cat ... then de-friend the friend.

I see what you mean Cogito, but if the friend is in a cult it's a lot like being in an abusive relationship - on the one hand she's a grown adult but on the other hand she's extremely vulnerable, actively being isolated from friends and a friend outside the abusive dynamic could be the lifeline she needs to pull herself out.

It's a balancing act. The OP has to figure out - is she being manipulated? And if she is, OP must manage not to alienate her, while also not reinforcing any cultish woo. All while looking after herself and her own well-being.

I really hope she has just been smoking lots of weed Lovingfreedom.

She doesn't appear to be being abused. Thirty-something, chatting away happily on FB (not isolated from society) and the only problem is that they've 'done a David Icke' probably backed up with lots of hallucinogenic drugs that reveal the whacky truth of the universe. Is she being manipulated?... who knows? Maybe the DP is the Blake Fielder-Civil to this woman's Amy Winehouse. Maybe it's the other way around. There are plenty of extreme belief systems out there - great swathes of people say they believe in ghosts & wine turns into blood on Sunday mornings - and we only tend to label them 'cults' when they're outside the norm.

Sorry if I'm drip-feeding...but the underlying things that are concerning:

• she didn't seem the 'type' to get into smoking dope etc. I'm not totally naive...and I'm not expecting a stereotype of a dope-smoker...just seems out of character in this case.
• Plus there were a number of family deaths just before she left the company and I know she was a bit isolated (that was the last of her family in UK)
• the website that her partner runs for their music includes photos of third eye and 'likes' David Icke. I dunno...I don't know if this is anything to do with a cult or not...
• she does seem to a lot of the ideas via her partner, rather than her own thoughts. This is quite a radical change because she didn't used to mention him that much before...and certainly never seem to rehash his ideas.

Tbh...most of our previous conversations were around office gossip, shoes & handbag type stuff, we did a bit of baking/cake-making for charity together and chatted about my kids or about family matters (e.g. when we both had bereavements around the same time). Ok people change, and they are spending a lot of time together so would be natural to mention him a lot..but this seems like more than that. Also, she does look almost like she is in a trance in the vids. (yeah stoned I hope) when she was always quite lively and energetic. It all seems out of character.

The messages don't bother me as such Cogito and yeah, I can just mind my own business...I just wouldn't want to think that if she is in trouble of any kind I wouldn't do what I can, if anything, to help. I wouldn't defriend her unless she started being a nuisance to other people that I know. I think I'll just keep sending friendly replies but not show any interest in the mystical side. I don't think that alerting her family would be appropriate at this stage. I might mention to other mutual friends in case there is anything more that they are aware of.

Cross posted Cogito....yes, I was thinking about that last night...if she started talking about wine turning to blood, a bloke rising from the dead and virgin birth ...that wouldn't raise any suspicions at all really.
I'll back off and only respond if she ever asks for help.

Have you ever challenged some of these whacko opinions directly? Ever pointed out that she used to be such a level-headed, free-thinking person but are worried that she now seems to be parrotting whatever new age crap her Icke-liking DP comes out with? If you get dropped faster than a hot dream-catcher you'll know you've struck a nerve....

My closest friend became embroiled with a religious cult a decade ago. She sent me emails and spoke to me on numerous occasions about her conversion (I found it very odd as prior to this she was very level headed and anti-religion) and tried to get me involved in the "church".

She sent me a letter when my baby was 3 weeks old telling me all about how she had seen the light and investigated many religions and the one she had joined was definitely true. . I found this very difficult as the "religion" was fundamentalist and we started arguing about whether homosexuality was a sin or not - we drifted apart.

I dealt with the emails trying to get me to come to services and "help out" at psuedo charitable bollocks by stating over and over (broken record stylee) that I have my own faith and I didn't wish to participate in her church. In the end I told her that unless she stopped sending me this guff that I was going to break all contact. She stopped doing it then.

In the end the "church" fell apart (sex scandals. again) and I got my friend back again - she is back to her old self after about 5 years of struggling to shrug off the doctrines on the cult.

She was is a terribly abusive relationship at the time of joining the cult, plus her sister was already in it and drew her in - eventually her parents were also members. Very scary shit.

No, she hasn't been specific so far....she's encouraging me to go out to Europe to visit them, to play some music with them and to get beyond 'exchanging niceties' etc. That's what my friend who I showed the message to thought was suspicious...it's non-specific but life-changing...enough to raise interest but not enough to challenge.

*pseudo.

My friend said that their parents and brothers have 'come along with them' but other friends have fallen away. I dunno.

I know someone who tried despiratly to get me to join JW, she was very into it. Despite her leaving her former hallmates still try to convert me years later.

Since she left JW to live with a Man, she had been for about a year cheated on him with her best friend she went from ultra religious cheating.

Dramatic lives of others are best at arms lenght.

There's nothing you can do if someone is involved in a cult, other than be there for them if they leave ( as you've said ) .

By the nature of a cult the members will be well indoctrinated to dismiss any criticism about their 'beliefs'. And a the first step would be to get you away from your normal life into a controlled environment where by they can begin the indoctrination process.

It usually involves you being amongst cult members who through strength of numbers ( their opinions ) attempt to break you down, question your own beliefs and then make themselves available to share 'the truth'.

I've had it happen to me and it's scary stuff.

Your friend could be totally innocent, but it does no harm to be cautious. I certainly would not recommend you visit alone unless you've put your concerns to rest.

"That's what my friend who I showed the message to thought was suspicious."

I really don't understand the suspicion. All you've described so far is a slightly extreme version of the average crusty festival crowd. When you get there, you could find that - in between home-made cakes, spliffs and handbag discussions - she or her DP wants to bore the tits off you with a combination of folk-music, very bad poetry and New Age revelations about conspiracy theories.

If that doesn't appeal just say 'no thanks' but, even if you went, I don't think you're going to arrive at the airport and get bundled into the back of a van painted with flowers, never to be seen again.

It sounds like she's experienced loss recently (deaths), has shaken herself free of the corporate world and is doing what a lot of people do in their late teens/early twenties and thinks she's the first to have done that. As cogito says it sounds rather like the average crusty festival crowd, and if she's doing a lot of travelling she's likely to come into contact. I suspect she's looking for more meaning in life than the corporate job she's left, but has perhaps gone a bit too far the other way at a slightly older age than usual.

Unless she's started handing over wads of cash I wouldn't worry too much. Why not ask her some direct questions - who she's travelling with, what the music represents etc.

Yeah...maybe you're all right..... I'll leave her too it but keep exchanging the 'niceties' from time to time. I'm not going to go out to visit...doesn't really sound like my scene whether or not it's a cult or just a bunch of crusties getting wasted. I was never worried for myself...just concerned for a friend.

I don't think you're going to arrive at the airport and get bundled into the back of a van painted with flowers, never to be seen again.

Sounds like an episode of Scooby Doo

where in the world are they?
how old are they?
could be just swinging, and wanting you to join in? are you fit?

Of course I'm fit...surprised you have to ask MrD...if they are swingers they should speak up! Don't fancy him much though...bit weird and mystical for my liking!