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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can I really be considering divorce?

55 replies

Deeplysad · 13/09/2012 21:15

Have name changed for this, would hate to be outed in RL. Sorry its long

Bit of history. Was with dh for 15 yrs when we got married this summer, We have 2 dc aged 4 and 5. We got together young (Iwas 16) bought a house (when I was 18), got in loads of debt, in a big mess. I worked a night job in a call centre as well as my daytime banking jobs and was eventually promoted to a managers job, paid off debts, gave up 2nd job. dh had unskilled but regular workA few years later, I was 26 by then we decided to start a family. When I was pg with eldest dc dh decided to leave his job and start his own business as a window cleaner and asked to remortgage house which we did. (£10k) when I was pg with dc2 I left my job, the cost of childcare meant that I decided to stay at home until younger dc was 1 then start 4 yrs retraining as a teacher as i really hated my banking job. I had £10k in the bank and no debts,so thought as long as dh had some income all would be ok, we'd just scrimp for a while. (I only mean 9 mths from when my mat pay kicked in until I could get student finance)

I didn't know he was making no money and running up massive debts. The first I knew was when someone arrived to reposess the van he had bought on finance. I had a 16mth dc and a newborn in the room and he verbally (there is no other word for it) bulied me to pay what he owed on my credit card. this happened again a few months later. This was in 2008. The 'business' dwindled until he was making no money (about £50pw) but was working every day. He also manages a mens football team at a serious level, does not get paid, but I reckon puts about 25 hrs a week in. He still hasn't got a proper job, I am a year away from qualifying as a teacher and i think he expects me to rpay the debts a- about £40k. He says he doesn't wan't the dc in out of hours care an would rather one of us was there to pick them up from school, but whilst I think there is some truth in this (he is a really affectionate dad) I also think he doesn't want to work hard, or have to miss football commitments because he can't have time off work.

He also does very little around the house. On Tues night I had to reseal the leaking bath at 11pm after being on a placement in school all day, doing homework, tea, bath and bedtime on my own because he had started it on Sun, not finished was (as always) out at footy and we need to get baths.

I am only 31 and feel like an old woman, worn down with worry about debt. If I'm really honest I am only with him for the kids' sake, I don't want to rip their world apart. God knows why I agreed to marry him in the summer (this didn't cause money issues, it was just at the town hall with no guests), I guess with hindsight I thought it might turn a corner. Hugely naive I know.
I don't know what to do. He's not a bad person, he's an affectionate dad, he he's not abusive in any way to us. He's just so bloody lazy and selfish.

I am so tempted to ask him to leave. About £15k of the debts are in my name (£5k that he asked me to put on the card that day, £10k uni debts) I own the house (although only about £10k equity) and both our cars- not worth loads, about £1000 each.

At the moment I am waiting for a student finance payment that is late and we are literally living on beans on toast. Tomorrow I have got to grovel to my daughters pre school to wait for payment of this terms fees until it comes in.

I feel absolutely defeated.

Any advice would be appreciated- I just don't know what to do.

OP posts:
lalalonglegs · 13/09/2012 21:25

Is it just his lack of money that is driving you away? If he were to get a job, would your problems be solved or are there other issues?

Deeplysad · 13/09/2012 21:35

The lack of job is the main issue.When I talk about how desperate the situation is and how he needs a job, even a part time one he nods gravely but never actually does anything. In the 3 years since the incident where they came to reposess his van (which has since been reposessed) he hasn't applied for a single job.

There are other issues- his football commitments drive me mad- he took them on when I was pg with dc1, he is bloody lazy round the house, won't deal with any of his debts because he says he'just can't' so I have to write to all the companies. If I just left it to him he wouldn't deal with and we would end up with debt collectors on our door. I do not want to bring my kids up like this :(

Because we are paying tiny amounts on a payment agreement at the moment the companies are on are backs all the time, even though we went though the correct channels, and he just won't deal with ANY of it.

OP posts:
Offred · 13/09/2012 21:37

He sounds like a burden. No-one can tell you what to do but it sounds like something needs to change for you. You can't carry him anymore. Sad

Deeplysad · 13/09/2012 21:42

Thanks for replying.

Need to try and sort my thoughts out really. Don't know if I'm just having a bad day, or if I just can't face ending a relationship I've been in since 16.

OP posts:
Offred · 13/09/2012 21:46

It is probably the latter isn't it really? I think you cannot live indefinitely with a husband who runs up debt in your name and won't work.

Offred · 13/09/2012 21:47

Why won't he work? Could you try couples counselling?

captainmummy · 13/09/2012 21:52

Can you face the next 15 years in the same boat?

lalalonglegs · 13/09/2012 21:52

Does he realise that the marriage is in jeopardy? I agree that he sounds a burden but you married him hoping that he would up his game - if he were to do that would you be happy to stay with him and would understanding that make him change?

I would be concerned that, if you do decide to split up, as the stay-at-home parent, he might qualify for custody of your children and you might end up supporting him until they reach 18 Sad.

Deeplysad · 13/09/2012 21:53

I couldn't get him to counselling in a month of sundays :(

I saw a counsellor last year because I was just in such a mess from constant worry and exhaustion (my ds had been ill too) which helped me get her perspective, but most of her advice was 'you'll have to get him to...' and I just can't. I've tried asking nicely, shouting, showing him the figures.

He won't even look at adverts for jobs. He will occasionally say 'I think my mate's work might be taking in in a few weeks" but nothing comes of it.

I honestly think a lot of it is his football- he puts so much into that and he wouldn't be able to get early finishes whenever he needs it. I can't get to the bottom of it. He says he needs to pick the kids up from school-but he could get a part time job and still pick them up some days. I am starting to think its just laziness

OP posts:
Offred · 13/09/2012 21:56

Then you have to make your choice based on him never being different.

Deeplysad · 13/09/2012 21:59

Its not that I feel he should have the role of breadwinner as hes the man-but they are HIS debts- I didn't even know they existed when he was running them up. I don't mind helping him repay them but I do mind doing it by myself,especially when he doesn't really do anything round the house etc, and doesn't mind asking his mum to have them for a bit after school because of footy.

I'm just moaning now, sorry.

OP posts:
Offred · 13/09/2012 22:02

I totally get that. If you were thinking he should be the breadwinner you'd not have stayed so long. Sad

Offred · 13/09/2012 22:02

You sound very nice but totally worn down. Sad

Offred · 13/09/2012 22:06

I don't know that he would end up with custody, it hadn't been agreed that he would be a SAHP, as far as the op is concerned he is meant to be looking for work. Payments for spouses are meant to be given because one has given up a chance of independent financial security so the other can progress their career. That isn't the case here. He's just been lazy and burdensome for many years been wracking up secret debts and avoiding taking responsibility for them. Could you get some legal advice though op? Could you also start looking for somewhere and just move out? There's no reason why you couldn't share care.

Deeplysad · 13/09/2012 22:13

lalalonglegs I hadn't even thought about custody- as I say he's not a nasty type, i don't think he would even ask for it. He is theoretically self employed as a window cleaner- he just makes NO money (perhaps £30pw) and kids have gone to nursery sine they were 2.5 years and 11 mths (thankfully I have had a childcare grant as part of my student finance). Because he was always convinced things would pick up I think. I do, and always have done medical appts, parents eve, dentist and until Easter last term I also did school run because my hours on an undergrad degree allowed me to. Its only now I'm doing PGCE my hours don't allow me to.

If he upped his game and got back into work etc then I think I would want to stay together- although I'm not sure- the last few years have left me pretty hurt really. I would certainly wait a while and see if I felt differently if he were to do that.

But no, I can't face another 15 yrs like this.

OP posts:
TodaysAGoodDay · 13/09/2012 22:15

I'm assuming he was always like this with money? People's spending habits don't change easily, you have to really work at it to get money issued under control. Sounds like he's having it both ways, spending money, all his time (on football, football I ask you!?) and letting you deal with the fallout. It sounds like he will drag you down further and further, and expect you to make it all right again. Other than 'but I love him' what reasons are there for you to stay? Your life will be infinitely better if you were apart, and the kids are young enough to cope, my DS was 2.4 and can remember nothing of the first 2 years after I left. Do it for them if not for yourself, please.

Offred · 13/09/2012 22:16

If that is how you feel you need to decide whether you can give him a chance to sort himself out and if so what kind of a chance/when will you give up? Or if it is a moot point because actually you feel like you have given him enough chances already.

TodaysAGoodDay · 13/09/2012 22:17

*issues, not issued

ChitchatAtHome · 13/09/2012 22:20

I'm sorry, but you're married. They're no longer HIS debts, they're now yours as well, and the house is also equally yours - at least in terms of divorce. Sad

If he were to become bankrupt, then they (probably) can't take your assets though.

Regardless of whether you AGREED to him being a SAHD, if he is doing the majority of childcare, then he is.

If you foresee a divorce, then I think you need to sort out your finances and childcare NOW, and perhaps get a post-nuptial agreement. A post-nuptial agreement would verify that the debts are his, and the house is yours, and state why - the why should address the fairness issues (post-nups are supposed to be fair, but they don't have to be as fair as a court settlement would be).

If your DC are collected from school by a childminder, then he suddenly stops being a SAHD and reverts to being unemployed.

Deeplysad · 13/09/2012 22:23

I think I might get some legal advice too.
I own our house in my sole name, the mortgage is currently interest only so its actually much cheaper than I could rent, (obviously we are now married but there's not much equity) and I am sure that if I asked him to leave he would...its just being sure that is what I want. It feels like that is a point of no return.

OP posts:
Offred · 13/09/2012 22:23

Op I think you need legal advice about this actually because getting married doesn't automatically mean things become split 50/50.

Offred · 13/09/2012 22:24

And him collecting the children also doesn't automatically make him a SAHD.

Offred · 13/09/2012 22:25

And a post nuptial agreement is pointless. They aren't enforceable and would be a waste of money.

Offred · 13/09/2012 22:28

Op - I don't think you need to make it into a big tug of war.

Perhaps get some legal advice to explore your options re the marriage and the assets. Then make a decision about the relationship. You can split amicably if you both want, it isn't required that you have a big fight. You can share care of the children, you don't need one of you to have full custody necessarily.

Deeplysad · 13/09/2012 22:30

Offred- you are right- I need to be really sure of where I stand- because the I have done the bulk of the childcare for their whole lives,its only since Easter he's done school run sometimes,and only since last week hes done it evey day. I wouldn't ever hve thought he's go after custody, or even the house-he's not greedy with money just so irresponsible. But you don't know until you're in the situation.

I do feel like I've given him enough chances. I am just so unhappy ALL the bloody time.

OP posts: