New thread on MIL meltdown - the manipulation goes on

[seoladair]

I am starting a new thread as the old one has become too long.

I haven't seen MIL since the meltdown at the end of July.

DH was staying with his parents for a few days last week while I was away. MIL has been working on him again. In a nutshell, she is demanding to babysit again.

Yesterday we were planning childcare for my part-time work.

There's a day our usual babysitter can't do, and I was planning to arrange for a friend to look after DD when DH said his mum would do it. I reminded him that after her spectacular outburst in front of DD a few weeks ago, we had agreed she could only have supervised access to DD.

We then had a big argument, and he said
"I'm going to have to be firm about this - it's sensible to save money by using my mother (Seoladair's MIL) for childcare."

I hated his use of the word "firm" and said
"I am not a child for you to be firm with".

That's the kind of thing MIL would say, and my DH does have a tendency to quote people almost verbatim, so I know that after spending a few days with her, he has been told in no uncertain terms to be "firm" with me.

Sometimes I fantasise about leaving him, amicably, so I can cut all ties with ILs, while maintaining a good relationship with him. But I don't want to leave him, I do love him - the problem is his mother.

BTW, to anyone who has just read this post without reading the thread, it might sound as though I am cruelly stopping MIL from babysitting. I will paste the original post below.

For background, the original post from 29th July....

Please give gentle answers - I am feeling bad, and am looking for kind advice, not a debate...

Since I became pregnant, my MIL has become very controlling and intrusive. My baby is now 14 months old, and we had a bit of a meltdown when she was just 6 weeks. There were lots of issues, for instance her saying "that baby is very fat" - you should put her on a diet", when she was 6 weeks old. She also got angry because my husband and I chose a hospital near my parents instead of near my ILs.

I have struggled all year to keep everything on an even keel but we had a meltdown yesterday over a small, silly thing - she has given us endless junk for the baby. I am in favour of second-hand things, but only if they are in good condition. She knows this well, but ignores it. DH and I have managed to tactfully reject 2 second-hand car-seats in the past year, and we've explained why.

Yesterday DH (a very tactful, gentle man) said that we wouldn't need the second-hand potty and stained loo-seat cover she had acquired for our baby. She also had some toys that were filthy. One of them looked as though it had been chewed by a dog.

An explosion of Vesuvian proportions ensued.

She was hollering at me in front of my baby, who got upset. I am very concerned that this will happen in the future, and undermine my daughter's view of me.

I also suspect that it's a control issue. She said "We do things our way", to which I replied "no, DH and I are baby's parents, so we would prefer to do things our way".Although they are a wealthy family I'm not saying they should spend much on my baby- I'm just tired of the emotional blackmail that accompanies the grubby pieces of baby junk, and would rather she didn't get it for us.

She also said she was very angry that I was only staying 2 nights. I stayed with them 3 weeks ago, also for 2 nights, and MIL babysat at our place 2 weeks ago, yet she was complaining that she doesn't ever see the baby. She also complained that my parents see more of the baby (not really true - sometimes they do, other times ILs see more of her - it just depends on what DH and I are doing).

Her daughter is estranged from her - I don't want my husband to become estranged from his parents too. I do want my daughter to know her paternal GM, but am concerned that I will be undermined more and more as my daughter grows up.

Sorry it's long....

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1528344-MIL-meltdown

I hated his use of the word "firm" and said
"I am not a child for you to be firm with".

How did your DH respond to this from you?.

From reading your other thread in its entireity it is clear that your MIL is toxic and is to be avoided at all costs. I can see why your SIL is estranged from this woman all too clear.

It goes without saying that MIL must have no contact at all with your child.
Toxic stuff like this often filters down the generations and toxic parents more often than not make for toxic grandparents as well.

Unfortunately your DHs innate and conditioned desire to please everybody is backfiring badly on him. He needs to realize that his primary loyalty is to you his wife now. He certainly needs counselling to deal with his own past and unfortunately for you he is neither ready and or able to accept the damage that his own parents have done to him. He is still in the FOG - fear, obligation and guilt.

Did you read Toxic Inlaws?.

"I hated his use of the word "firm" and said
"I am not a child for you to be firm with"."

Attila said "How did your DH respond to this from you?"

He panicked and immediately told me how much he loves me and our baby.

Yes, I read Toxic In-Laws. It helped me to understand DH's predicament. In the book, it seems that people with toxic parents very rarely make their partners feel as supported as they want. It's because the child of a toxic parent is so conditioned to try to please the parent at all costs.

My DH has a little-boy quality about him which I found very endearing. He's a very nice, kind person, but I'm coming to realise that it's a side-effect of his enabling personality, and was probably conditioned into him.

seoladair you are simply being assertive and long may it continue. I'm afraid you're the one who is going to have to be "firm" because your husband is indeed acting like a child.

Well done you for for sticking to your guns about the awful stuff she is trying to foist onto you. Your MIL has been a dreadful influence on your husband's life but it doesn't have to be like that for him any more, and it certainly doesn't have to be like that for you or your DD. He needs to wake up to that fact.

Behaving the way she has, saying your 6 week old DD is "fat", shouting and arguing in front of the baby is simply unacceptable behaviour. I don't blame you one bit for wanting to supervise all visits. So what even if it was the case that your parents did see your DD more often? It's not a competition.

Your DH needs to wise up or he'll end up back with mummy at this rate.

Well done.

I remember the old thread and thought then that your MIL was very unhinged and controlling and your dh under her thumb.
I think you have to be firm here and stand upto them both. It's not fair but I think it is the only way you will stop her taking over

I've only read your posts on your previous thread and I think you are doing the right thing in keeping your distance. I just wanted to point out though regarding your comment that sometimes you want to end things with DH in order to cut ties - - you do realise that if you did this your DD would most probably end up seeing your IL's a lot more? I'd be very concerned about the rot they could fill her mind with when she was older, I know you say you love your DH and don't want to leave but it's worth noting you'd probably have less of a say over contact if you did.

I think it's totally understandable that you don't want MIL to babysit, gosh why would you?! It's a real shame your DH can't grow a pair but it does sound like he's standing up for you at least some of the time, having been a 'people pleaser' most of my life I can actually see where he's coming from trying to keep the peace, but I'm afraid when it comes to my family (ie; the one I've chosen to create with DH) I have grown a pair and I'd never allow anyone to treat DH or my children badly, and that means I have to also look out for myself. I hope things reach an amicable resolution one way or another very soon.

Thank you for your encouraging comments. I know I am doing the right thing by refusing to let her shout at me in front of my husband and child. I need to enforce boundaries but it's so very hard - the emotional bullying and manipulation of DH is hard to take.
NiceCupofTea - yes that's true! Anyway, I'm just being flippant- I don't want to separate from DH; it's just me desperately trying to work out how to reduce contact with them.

I know I am doing the right thing by refusing to let her shout at me in front of my husband and child.

That's the thing. Hold that thought!

If you haven't seen them since the end of July then it sounds as though you have already worked out how to reduce contact with them.
You don't have an obligation to visit people and be visited by people who are unpleasant to you and who you dislike just because you are related to them.
You don't have to have a closer relationship with your inlaws just because you have had a baby. I'm amazed how many women feel an obligation to turn their weekends into an endless circuit of visiting and being visited just because they have kids. You are still entitiled to live your own life.
It sounds as though you weren't assertive enough with your MIL when pregnant as she can only be intrusive and controlling if you meet up with her and let her.
I would keep your distance, maybe gradually start seeing your inlaws once a month and see how things go.
If she complains your parents see the baby more then say that that is because your parents treat you better than she does and she has to accept that her grandchild is your child and she has to work on the relationship with you as if you dislike seeing her then she won't be seeing you.

Most people are naturally polite to inlaws, so when ILs cross the boundaries for the first few times, it goes unchallenged. Anyway, that's how it worked with me.

Looking back, they took liberties with me even before I was pregnant. It would have been petty to have challenged them at the time, at least that's what I thought.

For instance, quite early on FIL said to me on a lovely summer day when I was wearing flip-flops "Why haven't you polished your toenails? It's important for a woman to polish her nails." (Ironically, I was wearing pearly pink nail polish - he just hadn't noticed it as it was so pale)

I felt rather belittled by that, but tried to laugh it off, and tell myself not to be so sensitive. But that's just one example of many when FIL talked to me as though he expected me to be a decorative little housewife.

As an isolated putdown, that's not a big deal - I told myself not to sweat the small stuff. But I see now that by allowing my ILs to make subtle digs, I was actually opening the floodgates and now they think they can be as rude as they like.

Bother, posted on your old thread, said:

Just reading back, did you say your PILs live 70 miles away? How come she is offering child-care, is the idea she'd come and stay in your home?
Plus I'd forgotten they are in their mid-70s, I know plenty of healthy vigorous people of that age or so but I think that a toddler is going to be a handful.
Two genuine factors to offer your DH as a reason for preferring to make other arrangements.

If they live 70 miles away then saying no to childcare is easy, plus not visiting them often is easy.
FIL sounds extremely rude. He and MIL sound well matched. At least they have each other. If they are in their 70s I'm surprised your husband isn't more independant. His comments re being firm aren't that surprising if his father is a man who thinks he can tell women to put some nail polish on!

His parents are dinosaurs, but he isn't like that at all. The "firm" comment came straight from MIL, I think.

Shouldn't laugh but that does make an interesting mental image, Seoladair

Why MIL, FIL sounds just as bad. He obviously thinks men should be telling women how to dress and what to do. I think women on mumsnet give FILs an easy ride. You can't become an obnoxious MIL if close relatives tell you you are being unreasonable and bullying and won't give in to it.

at Donkeys! So that makes my daughter an interesting and possibly unique hybrid!

Rebecca - FIL is henpecked, but is also jawdroppingly bigoted. The thread is about MIL because she's the one who is demanding and manipulating at the moment. But FIL can be just as manipulative. When DH and I were newly-weds, FIL was letting it be known that he was depressed because he was seeing less of my husband.