just found DH in DD's cot

[sleeplessbunny]

where he had passed out drunk. I am still shaking. My first thought was "where is DD?" as I couldn't see her, he was taking up the whole cot. She was fine, curled up in the tiniest corner and hidden from view under (D)H's leg, but still.

There is no point trying to talk about it with him until the morning (or later) but I need to vent and try and get my own thoughts straight. This might be an epic post.

He has always drunk too much, it has got worse over the years though and now it is "normal" for him to have at least 1 bottle of wine every night. On a night like that it doesn't even cross my mind that he is drinking too much, his behaviour is usually fine, or at least unremarkable.

Since DD (1 yo) was born, he has given up smoking which he found very difficult and I think has contributed to his drinking getting worse. He used a particular book/technique to help him stop smoking and in the last couple of weeks he has bought the equivalent book for stopping drinking (but hasn't read it yet) so I am hopeful that he at least has the intention to stop. He has said on a few occasions that he wants to be able to cut down his drinking, but tbh I try not to engage him in conversation about either smoking or drinking as it always tends to end with an argument because our expectations are so different.

Anyway, obv tonight he drank way more than usual. I'm not entirely sure why, but SIL (his sister) and DN are here to visit, perhaps he just got carried away. But he was the only one drinking.

He must have come to bed about 11 ish (I had gone to bed early) but at around midnight he got up to go to the loo, made loads of noise, turned on all the lights etc etc. I was inwardly groaning and just waiting for him to come back to bed. Must have drifted off again and woke up with a start hearing weird noises on the baby monitor, went to investigate and found him sprawled in her cot.

Is it time for me to make a stand? I am so scared for DD right now, I am just thinking of all the other awful things he could have done without realising/thinking. He could so easily have just squashed her. What if he'd decided to take her out and dropped her? Am I an idiot for not having thought about this sort of thing before?

Right now I honestly don't feel safe with him in the house. I can't entertain the thought of going to sleep as I have to be awake to protect DD incase he does something else I haven't thought of. Am I over reacting?

My gut feeling right now is to tell him (in the morning) that he has to stop drinking or get out. To pour all the alcohol down the sink. But I know he can't stop, and so I'm scared of the outcome. I do love him, and 95% of the time his behaviour is fine.

WWYD?

[mummahubba]

He's an alcoholic, he'll ruin your baby's childhood. Divorce him. But of course you won't because women with alcoholics always put them before their children. He could easily of killed your baby. You'll stay with him though. I feel sorry for your baby, a mother is meant to put her baby before her husband.

[PooPooOnMars]

mummahubba. That's harsh! You know nothing of the sort!

[GColdtimer]

Op, I didn't get the impression there was any real sense of horror from your dh at what he had done. The fact he said you had over reacted by throwing away the booze is telling. I am just concerned that you will end up minimising this too.

This man is a danger to your child. You need to take steps to keep her safe. What would you be doing if he had taken her out of her cot, put her in the car and driven with her whilst in that state? Because what hd did was no less dangerous than that.

[GColdtimer]

And what is the point of a "no drinking in the house" rule when he could go out, get plastered and get in the cot again. Next time your dd might not be so lucky. What difference does it make where he drinks ffs .

[garlicnutty]

You did do the wrong thing by throwing away the booze, OP, but you weren't to know that. You took on a parental role ... and tried to control H. It's not actually surprising he reacted against it, I would have been more cross than he was! Never mind, that's done now and neither of you could be expected to look at the hidden messages while being, between you, shocked, distressed and hungover.
Start again. Not from tomorrow or next Monday: start from here, now :) It's the only way.

There's something I forgot to mention to Mr. Sleeplessbunny:-

When you stop drinking, the oddest thing is that life feels kind of 'flat'. It's not a particularly bad feeling but can be very disorientating. Alcohol - or any other addiction - gives you a sort of sparkly feeling; it makes life feel more intense somehow. Neurologically, this is because addictions engage the same brain processes as love. Like a bad love affair, too, it's a hell of a rollercoaster with a down following every up.

You tend to use a little more over time, chasing the ups, but no matter what you do it will become mostly downs - and worse every time. I managed to get out before it went "all downs" and I trust you will, too :)

The solution to the 'flatness' has two sides. One is simply to enjoy it. If you're even a bit like me, it's quite a while since you were fully present in some of your good moments. Days out with family can be hard work with a hangover; when you're feeling properly 'there' you can take your time to appreciate the small things. You get a lot more time when you're not drinking. Most of the people in rehab had never had sex sober! There's a thought; you'll have more focus and awareness, not to mention energy ... And there's talking without being pissed. That's quite novel, you can keep up with a train of thought for a change.

The other side is remembering you can still feel great without alcohol! It's VERY important not to get addicted to something else instead - but there's nothing wrong with trying a few new things out, seeing how you feel with them. Drinking does make people boring after a while so, depending how long you've been a steady drinker, you've probably missed out on doing stuff. Have a think and a chat with the missus, see what new experiences you can come up with.

I hope I haven't come over as patronising. I just like the thought that your wake-up call has come early enough for you to knock it off before getting into the mess I've seen other people in.

[Inertia]

SGB is right - this is no longer about your husband's needs. It's about keeping your baby alive.

He isn't a great dad. A great dad would have been horrified and remorseful about the danger he put your child in. And he has the barefaced fucking cheek to tell you that you over reacted? He isn't even bothered about your baby's life if it interferes with his drinking - and while that's undoubtedly harsh, it's what his actions demonstrate.

[tb]

OP, here's another story. My much-loved df died 25 years ago. He was 79.

46 years ago, when I was 10, I was playing at the house over the road. I was upstairs. I looked out of the window, and saw my df being carried out of the house feet first on a stretcher. I have never ever felt so terrified in my life.

I hurtled down the stairs, down the front path, across the road and home. He had been in an alcoholic coma, and had wet the bed. (However, it had taken my not so 'd'm 2 days to call the gp.) He had his stomach pumped, 2 weeks in hospital and then 3 months 'drying out'.

I don't think that he was an alcoholic. He could drink socially, would have a beer occasionally, and was refused antabuse in hospital - he used to go out with his mates into Chester and go to the pub to play billiards. They were on orange juice, but he wasn't. He just to drink what he fancied.

However, there were times, many of them, during their unhappy marriage when he drank heavily - a bottle of spirits a day for a period before stopping. He missed many things - including my graduation.

However, have never forgotten that moment of sheer terror when I was 10.

Nor have I forgiven my 'd'm for lying and saying that he was an alcoholic when he was admitted to hospital 3 weeks before he died - it's given as one of the causes of death on his death certificate - but the sins of my dm could fill a book.

However, even though the psychiatrist treating him in the hospital said that he definitely wasn't an alcoholic, he was definitely a problem drinker.

[CouthyMowWearingOrange]

OP. My friend let her mother babysit her 4 mo baby. Her mother was an 'evening drinker' but promised not to drink while she was babysitting. She lied.

The grandmother of the baby ended up slumped in the little boy's cot. He wasn't as lucky as your DD. He died.

The worst thing I have ever seen is a mother grieving for the preventable loss of her 4mo baby, and throwing herself onto his coffin as it was lowered into the ground.

This could so easily have been your family last night.

I can't say much more than that, apart from the fact that in 14 years of having grandchildren, I have NEVER left my DC's in my alcoholic Mother's house. Not even with me present. My mother only drinks in the evenings. I still deem it as unsafe for my DC's to be around her.

That is all I can say, tbh.

[QuintessentialShadows]

My fil was an alcoholic. He died from drinking related issues age 55, leaving behind mountains of debt (that came to light after his death) which dh and I are helping MIL pay off. £200 per month. Ha, we are paying for fils death, as we are still paying off debt taken on to pay for alcohol. That is £2400 per year, over the last 3-4 years worth of alcohol we have been paying!

[Bunnyjo]

OP, I urge you to read and reread these posts. I know every breath in your body wants to return to a few days ago; a time where you knew he had a drink problem, but it never really caused any problems. You reiterate how he is a wonderful father and husband (when he isn't drunk) and I can see how you want him to be this person all the time...

The sad fact is, he cannot be that person all the time. At best, he has a problem with alcohol. Worst? He is an alcoholic who will prioritise his addiction over everything, including your DD's safety. He recklessly endangered your DD's life last night; I truly shudder to think what could have actually happened.

What scares me even more is his reaction - he sort of admits he has a problem, but also says you removing the alcohol from the house was an overreaction?! I am literally dumbfounded, he could have KILLED your DD. Today, you could so easily have visited a morgue and been interviewed by police trying to ascertain the cause of your DD's death. Yet now, it appears you are enabling him further? Please, please speak to Al Anon, make an appointment to see your GP and tell him/her what happened, and confide in friends and family. You need to surround yourself with support.

We are anonymous internet people; we can shout, swear and tell you to leave the bastard, or stay, and everything inbetween. Fact is, there is now over 200 posts here and, whilst people have debated the exact details of what could happen, EVERY poster has acknowledged how serious this is.

Wishing you all the best, OP. I truly hope you find the strength to do what is necessary to protect your DD.

[cestlavielife]

I don't see how you can allow him to spend another night In your house how can you sleep again ?

He doesn't seem to have appreciated the risks to your dd.

And what if your dd was older and woke to him slumped in her bed ?

Have him round in the day if you like but he sleeps elsewhere hotel whatever until he really acts on his drinking.
One third of way thru book ?
That is a lot more nights like this while he reads the rest...

[RuthMorganandIsobelsmum]

As if there weren't enough above I'm going to add my experience with an alcoholic as extra warning.

I was married to an alcoholic. Like so many people I denied it, I repeated his lies "it's not that bad", "he's rarely drunk" "he's a social drinker" etc. All the time I enabled his drinking by looking after him, feeding him, patching things up with friends and family when he'd had drunken rows.

We tried for a baby for a long time and despite ME having lots of tests (for fertility) he refused to be tested for nearly 5 years. When I finally got him to go the doctors immediately saw the problem. He had a sharp shock, the doctor blatantly told him that I had no fertility issues it was all him and all caused by his drinking. It was enough, he stopped drinking. I fell pregnant very quickly and for a while it was great.

What I didn't realise was that he started drinking again when I was about. 3-4 months pregnant. I should of realised, looking back it was obvious but I didn't want to see it. He told me he wasnt drinking and I liked believing him. I didn't find out til our son was 8 months old. His sister finally told me (most of our friends and all his family knew). We had a couple of rows and he agreed to 'cut down', he didn't really have a problem (!). I told myself he was a good father, he loved our son, I loved him it would be ok. But it only took a month for him to have a total binge and vanish for a day then phone up out of his mind drunk threatening to kill himself. I had to call the police. He had a serious history of self harm and I was beside myself. I went to stay with my sister with DS and the next day my H called and said he'd tried to come and see us. I was actually going to accept this, I was just so relieved he was ok. Thank god I was with my sister who got me angry! She made me see the real situation. A grown man with a son putting alcohol first every time, never really apologising always lying, "trying to see us"! I realised I didn't want my son to grow up around this, not only the day to day danger but the long term affects of growing up with a parent who DOESN'T LOVE YOU MORE THAN ANYTHING! We all deserve that.

When I told him how cross I was he vanished for 4 days and turned up half dead, it made me more resolute. I told him I was leaving but if he got help we could work things out. Things went back and forth for a few months but just as we were getting back on track he went on another enormous bender and confessed he'd hadn't actually been sober (again). I divorced him. Almost exactly a year after I told him I was divorcing him he died of alcoholism. Now my son is 3 and doesn't remember him. He calls my OH Daddy and my oh is in the process of adopting him.

Please, please don't be in denial like I was. Please be honest with yourself, I know deep down you know the truth. I wish I had left my ex sooner,I missed out a lot of crap he put me through. You know what's best for all of you. I can't tell you to definitely leave him or definitely stay , but if you stay make sure you're both getting REAL help. Not a book, professionals, now.

Good luck. X

[lou33]

Sleepless, of course we all want a happy family and homelife, a good marriage etc, the problem is when only one of you is working at sustaining that, whilst the other is slowly but surely making alcohol their priority over everyone else.

I know for sure that i felt just like you for a long time, and tried to gloss over the drinking sessions, convincing myself that when he was sober everything was fine, he was a good father and husband etc.

Because we want our marriages to work, we want to try and try to keep it on track. We hate the thought of breaking up a family unit and what it will do to the children, who obviously love both parents so very much, and the thought of having to tell them that mum and dad are separating, and the dread of how they react, is utterly heartbreaking, and not something to be done lightly (my exh told me that I told him to leave on a whim one day because I was bored, and ruined 5 lives because of it, btw).

But eventually, in my case, I just ran out of excuses for him, and ran out of reasons to keep trying. The thought of still being with him 5 years ahead, and my children growing up in that environment, shaping their attitudes and relationships in the future to the point of thinking the relationship between myself and my ex was the norm, made me feel physically sick.

At that point I knew there was no choice really, and however upset my children were about it, it would be better in the long term for us all. They adjusted brilliantly and are all old enough to agree life is so much better since he went.

At various points over the years we were together, my exh also made claims about wanting to stop, went to AA, etc. But without fail he never followed through, and always had an excuse as to why he stopped trying, and it was always the fault of anyone or anything but himself.

Then of course I remember countless times after his drinking sessions, when he would be utterly horrified, very remorseful and contrite, and would tell me he would do anything to have one more chance. There would follow a few weeks of calm and no drinking and him being very nice, and then it would start all over again.

The only thing that changed was the increase in the amount of times it kept happening.

You cannot control what he does and how he behaves, but you CAN control if you and dd should put up with this being your life. You have a chance to get out of this, to stop you both from being dragged down with him as his drinking worsens. Your dd needs you to protect her from every aspect of his problem, and neither of you should be worried that he could potentially cause serious harm to either of you, because of the state he gets himself into.

Good luck to you both

[dysfunctionalme]

Sleepless - I think you are waking up to the seriousness of your husband's drinking.

But attila (and many other posters) is right, you need to step back from the role you are assuming of his caretaker.

Saying you want him to "admit" he is an alcoholic is a fruitless exercise. Besides, the term alcoholic is subjective.

Think of it as having a problem with alcohol. That is, YOU have a problem with his alcohol consumption. That is the extent of your problem. Whether or not he is alcoholic in his or someone else's terminology is for them to worry about.

Once you can own your problem, it'll be easier for you to navigate your way to solving it.

Maybe you will decide you don't want alcohol in the house whether it's in a bottle or inside your husband. I don't know. But once you realise where the line is, you will be able to look for a solution more easily.

And do heed others' warning about trips to the morgue. Sometimes envisioning the worst case scenario is a good way to assess risk.

[Finallygotaroundtoit]

tb, sorry you had such terrifying experience and your dad's drinking had such a negative impact.

Just wondering why you are so angry with your mum?

It certainly sounds like he was an alcoholic and I don't think it would have been put on his death certificate without medical evidence

[URMyDinosaur]

Aargh pouring the drink away was a complete under reaction. He should be thoroughly ashamed that he could have killed your dd but I expect as someone up thread said he will promise to try and then it will all carry on as normal. As someone who regularly poured my mums drink away I know how it goes too.
Op at the mo your dh loves alcohol more than he loves you or your dd. until that changes then he will still put your dd at risk. My mum loves alcohol more than she loves me and it fucking hurts. But it's a fact. I'd face up to it fast and make plans, whether it's now or in 5 years time when you've really had enough until he wises up to what he is you are not gonna want to stay with him. Op's dh. You are an alcoholic, a bottle of wine a night is not normal and your dw was not overreacting to pour your drink away. In fact if she'd kicked you out she would not have been over reacting.

[nellyjelly]

Not wanting to start a fight as this is OP's thread but have to say that the AA model is only one model. Yes it works well for alot of people but not everyone. The notion of addiction as disease has become the orthodoxy but there are other ways of looking at drinking problems. The way some people sell the AA ethos on here as if it's gospel is not very helpful imho.

OP, I hope your OP gets the help he needs.

[sleeplessbunny]

a lot of information here that I am having trouble absorbing tbh. Some sad stories too. I am getting the message that I need to think more about me and DD, less about DH. I am trying but it's not easy. He had no alcohol last night, for the first time in a very long time, years probably.

I have looked up Al-anon and have found a local group. I will go along this week. My goal is to work out exactly where my boundaries are (for me and DD) and to know that I am 100% confident I can stick to them.

[Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake]

As a side issue and as the daughter of an alcoholic, I'd like to point out that there is no difference between an alcoholic and "a problem drinker". They are the same thing. If your drinking causes problems in your life, to yourself or others and you continue, you ARE AN ALCOHOLIC. There are alcoholics who can stay off the booze for long periods, who can manage without drink in the house, who only drink beer/wine/etc and so on. If what and how they drink causes problems in their lives THEY ARE ALCOHOLICS. My father only drank beer, he never drank in the house, he could stop for short periods, he was still a raging alcoholic and ultimately it killed him.

[Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake]

Good luck OP. I wish you all the best, you have a long, hard road ahead. xx

[nellyjelly]

Lagartijadoes - your point is a moot point and highly debatabe. But not on this thread.

That is your view and yor experience. That is not 'truth'. Some theories of addiction are based on this idea, some are not. AA is not the only way and to suggest it is is incorrect and unhelpful.

[dysfunctionalme]

Sleepless that sounds like a great starting point. All the best with your meeting, I hope you get some good RL support.

[Lagartijadoesthecrazyshake]

I agree nelly that AA is not the only way and I'll leave now so as not to derail the thread, but I did want to correct this idea of problem drinker/alcoholic as I think sometimes it allows people to see it all as less serious; "oh he's not an alcoholic or anything, he just has a drinking problem", when in reality it doesn't change anything at all.

[QuintessentialShadows]

You have to bear in mind that your husband is an adult. He is chosing to drink. His relationship with alcohol is most likely more important to him than his relationship with you and your baby is - as the coming months might prove to you.

While he is choosing to drink, he is also choosing the life you and your baby live, due to his alcoholism. This is not your choice, and it is not your baby's choice. You are powerless in this, an unhappy bystander, unless you kick him out.

And worse, you are making the choice that your baby will grow up with an alcoholic father, and all that entails.

What you need to think about is the long term effects his drinking has on your child, because this you are in control of.

My own father had a period of heavy alcohol consumption from I was 12 until I was 18. It really influenced my teenage years. I had problems sleeping, started suffering from anxiety (I am better now, but it took decades of struggling), and started withdrawing from friends.
My mum was going through the menopause, and started going to bed really early. My dad kept me up with drunken ramblings, being talkative, rubbishing my mums family, rubbishing mum, me. He never hit me or was violent or anything. But I could see his personality change with each sip of cognac, and I was very upset and hated these "meaningful evening talks". He was very critical, and kept chipping away on me, my choices, my school work, etc.

I could not be anywhere near the city center at night, the sight of drunk people made me shake with fear. The anxiety attacks over merely seeing drunk people, lasted more than 24 hours. As a teen, I could not go to any parties without shaking uncontrollably unable to sleep afterwards (and started dipping into my mothers diazepam that she kept in the fridge) "self medicating". Heck, I was 16 by then, and just wanted to stop shaking. Some days I thought of killing myself to escape. But I did not have the courage to go through with it. I could now work out how to make a proper noose to hang myself (no youtube, innit...),

Later, it turned out that my mum went to bed deliberately to get away from his drunken ramblings. She never thought he would subject me, his young daughter to the same.

She failed to protect me, but protected herself instead.

It all came to a head when I shouted and screamed at her that I was sick and tired of being kept up by a rambling drunk, that I wanted to move out, that I hated both my mum and my dad.

She fetched my dad, and asked me to repeat what I had said to her, and left the room.

Again leaving me to myself. But I did repeat what I said, and he apologized. It got better.

However, dont be like my mum who protected herself, and found ways for herself to cope, and enabling him in the process, thinking his drinking not affected the child...

[CouthyMowWearingOrange]

That sounds like a good start, Bunny. They helped me to come to terms with having to detach from my alcoholic mother for e sake of my DC's, and to help me learn to stop enabling her.

If only my stepdad and Dbro would do the same. My Dbro can't really help it, mind you, he is 21 but has Aspergers, and that's his main 'carer' . My Stepdad on the other hand, is very much enabling her alcoholism. She is drinking herself into an early grave, and in the process, is only seeing her grandchildren a handful of times a year, for an hour or two at most. But I can't stop her, there's nothing I can do to make her stop, so I refuse to grant those issues my time. The consequence of her alcoholism is not seeing me or her grandchildren very much.