stupid fucking ex, and stupid fucking me...

[A37]

I'm SO MAD...

Xs day to have kids today. So he turns up at 930am, which is fine except we never know when he is coming..I've given up asking, he wont give a time...and sometimes he doesn't turn up at all.

He moved out of the family home 3 months ago into a bedsit, where it is unsuitable for kids to go for over night stays.

He arrives and sits at the kitchen table talking to a friend on the phone I offer to put some snacks etc in a bag so he can take them to the Rugby Club-season starts today, dd1 plays. He doesnt want to go to RC because it is 'raining' (it plainly isnt, but not worth arguing) so I go upstairs....half hour later he announces he will take them to rugby!! so, big rush to get kids dressed and bag ready. He burns them some scrambled eggs and tries to feed it to dd2 in sitting room, in front of TV. I tell him that is useless; he needs to turn tele off and sit them at kitchen table, plus I dont want a food mess in sitting room. He rants about how I try to control him....kids wont eat burnt eggs I make some toast

he announces he will bring them back after rugby at 12pm! Fucking 1.5 hours 'quality time' with their dad in over a fortnight!!

THEN his friend arrives to give them a lift...they have gone in his car WITHOUT car seats dd2 under 2 years -dd1 will be ok

I am so

It all happened in a bit of a chaotic whirlwind, and I was unable to stop them

My dad was an arsehole, turning up at my mums whenever he wanted and sometime not at all, sometimes pissed!!!

I understand exactly what you are doing and why, it would be useless arranging to meet this selfish man as you could be waiting for hours and it's ONLY the kids who will suffer for it. I would ban him from taking them when the kids have things arranged such as rugby so that you can take them. Unfair on you yes, but it the kids that matter. Sort out a day between you, you don't have to tell the kids he's coming so they won't be disappointed if he doesn't turn up, make sure it's a day that YOU don't have anything to be getting on with (crappy housework day etc.) Don't worry if it's only once a month or so that they see him either, I didn't see my dad for months on end sometimes - it's him who is arsed about it all now though, he's old and has nobody except his drunken beer mates who are all dying of liver failure around him.........

You sound like a good mum and this advise is only from my viewpoint of a child with a really shit dad who only ever turned up I think out of guilt of weeks of letting me down? As for the effect it had on me as an adult, I don't see much of my dad despite him mithering me every week to come and see me and the kids and I vowed not to have a marriage or a dad to my kids like that. I've been married to a very lovely man (who I still love to bits) for 14 years and am now expecting my 4th child with him , the kids adore him and he's nothing like my dad.

Kids live and learn, they WILL see him for the man he is (or isn't) so don't put yourself through a hard time because of the way he acts.

Good luck to you, you seem to be doing the best job that you possibly can x

Ah shelley thanks for your lovely post, made me cry; sorry you have such a shit dad too

blckberry no he doesnt pay maintenance-it has been agreed that he wont for a set period of time, to recoup what he is 'owed' financially from the divorce A whole other long boring story; in short, I agreed to that to speed up divorce process that would otherwise drag on for eternity-he wouldnt leave the house and he needed too-alcoholic tendencies

No problem what-so-ever A37. I don't normally post on these threads, but understand exactly what you are going through. I just wanted you to know that you sound like you are doing a fantastic job with your children and they WILL realise this when they are older and thank you for it.

Im pretty sure he will just stop seeing the dds, and say I am being too difficult...

That is his problem. It's not healthy for the children the way he is either.
Not knowing when he turns up, making life difficult for them, not driving with seats, etc.

He came back with the kids and I told him that he needed to be picking the kids up reliably at set times each week, and having them for a given period of time...I have tried this before, he always say 'yes, we will talk about that...' and we never do. So, I added that if he didnt make an agreement now then I would do it through solicitors. He went ballistic; saying that is why he left (pffft!) because I always try to control him....he slammed out.

Whenever I try to make arrangements I get a wall of; its very difficult to stick to rigid times/ im busy/ i have to work (i work too)/ I am studying (the optics usually)/ I have to get my shopping in . I always say, well tell me what you can do and he always needs time to think about it

i enticed him back for a roast dinner; and finally got a verbal agreement. He will come after work every Thursday and at 9am on Sundays--he will take them to rugby. But, 'what?' he wanted to know is he supposed to do with them if it is raining?/ where is he supposed to feed them (meaning there are no facilities at RC for lunch)/ how is he supposed to take them out if they want to come home to me????

I need to tell them to do what he says It is my fault that they dont listen to him! This is an on going complaint he has; he has minimal input since they were born, always calls on me to discipline (then undermines me) and wonders why he struggles with them. Basically he is lazy and doesnt want to put in the effort. Also thinks they should be ameniable 'dolls' and not push boundaries etc etc

Grrrrr...anyway, persuaded him to take them to the park for an hour

next stop...solicitors

Could you try mediation? It will likely be suggested by the solicitor anyway and you will just have to pay the solicitor to suggest it and then pay the mediator to mediate but you can self refer.

I think you really need to stop mothering him.

If you do either he will grow up or he won't but while you are he will always behave like a sulky teenager.

Don't cook for him.

Don't entice him and cajole him into stepping up, this will just mean you get drawn into being responsible for him seeing his children and the dcs and him will learn that you are responsible for whether or not he comes. He will have no incentive to take responsibility for this and will blame you for his failures with your permission.

I really think you need to stop having him in your house. He only needs to come to the door to pick up the children. He should not be coming in and taking advantage of you/ruling your life otherwise what is the point of you splitting up?

If it helps only communicate by text.

Set out a case: he needs to stick to the arrangement. He doesn't need to speak to you at all. He is solely responsible for his parenting and his time with the girls. If he doesn't come he will need to go to mediation with you to work out an arrangement he will stick to.

Why the fuck are you making him a roast dinner?-sorry am going to be harsh here but you are facilitating his shit behaviour by being such a walkover!! I do understand what you are saying about not wanting the kids to get hurt but at the end of the day quite honestly it sounds like he will never change. The kids will learn what he is like.

Go to the solicitors and get proper contact arranged. If he doesnt turn up then it is his loss at the end of they day. Stop letting him into your house!!!!

here here Offred they need to face consequences if they fail on a court order too - esp. when they use legal aid to get it.
Back to the OP you feel stupid because you know you can't let this continue but he is at fault and glad to hear you are going to see a solicitor. Don't let him in the house any more and if the sol. can get an agreement for contact draw up between you it will save you the costs/time and stress of court.
You sound like a great mum looking out for her children and he seems to be just trying to tick an odd box for himself.
You say he doesn't mean it - please don't make allowances for him - from experience it doesn't end well.

I know I hate so much all the fathers4justice crap because actually a family court process is so skewed towards a NRP I think you must only have yourself to blame if you don't see your children. A parent with care cannot apply to the court to get a NRP to see their dcs for obvious reasons but the adversarial court process means a parent with care being sued for apparently withholding access to dcs is always the respondent and therefore the whole process is about the NRP and what they say/think and only about how the PWC responds to those accusations.

My experience was good in the end but because we went to court the court made my dcs be put through him making arrangements and letting them down all over again because they had to see it for themselves and couldn't rely on what I said. This had a serious negative emotional affect on my son who was 2, he was potty training and became incontinent again and was not able to speak to me about his feelings and demonstrated angry and frustrated behaviour (head banging). Which made me really and with xp as I could understand the position of the court.

Literally the court would say "we need to give him an opportunity to try x" I would state my misgivings about the times he has tried before then say he could do it anytime he was free because I was not working, xp would make an arrangement then he would text to say he wasn't coming, he never had had any intention of coming because he always would have been at work in the pub and I couldn't make him half an hour before he was meant to come.

There were no consequences to him for this other than to try a less taxing contact order which he didn't stick to or stuck to for only a short time.

Because he had only applied for access to ds and not dd (he said it was physically impossible she was his) the court initially would not make an order for him to have her or to do DNA testing and at that point I was given serious advice re: contempt of court because I was adamant that he would not be allowed to take one of his children and not the other (he was on her birth certificate but claimed I had forced him to sign but was not disputing paternity with csa just not applying for access to her and wouldn't take her). Fortunately the magistrate sided with me and made a special allowance to do a DNA test which proved her to be his and then xp had no choice but to have her added to the case.

In the end the magistrate made a judgement that xp had never been denied access and the case had been vexatious - largely because a lot of the things he said didn't match up; I wouldn't let him see his children but I wanted him to see dd so much I was willing to be held in contempt of court! He made xp apologise to me right there because he had "said some of the worst things you can say about a woman nevermind the mother of your child".

The whole experience was horrible, dd is a rape baby and when he took me to court he was being watched by the police for harassing me and investigated by the family crime unit about child porn accusations (came to nothing). I was being helped by women's aid and was absolutely terrified of him. Our first court date was scheduled for dd's due date and I had to fight to have her allowed into court so I could breastfeed. It was horrific but fortunately because there was domestic abuse we sat in separate rooms, although were expected to wait in the same waiting room. :/ court and mediation lasted around 3 or 4 years. He is still a shit.

OMG! Offred - for you to have been put through that is just disgusting.

In such cases you should have been given financial compensation not just an apology.
More Women need to start pushing back and being aware of what is actually going on - my own situation has opened me up to it more but I think more people need to know - I found a good organisation Maypole which I would like to get more involved with - they seem to be the only one alongside women's aid that are protecting women against what father4justice have managed to get legislated. I hope your life is much better now you deserve all the happiness in the world after that.

I can actually understand why it is like that. I think more men need to be more empowered and enabled to care for their children and assert their positions as fathers. I'm very sad to see how many fathers just assume caring for the children is a women's job/right still and think this is probably the biggest barrier to those who are good fathers.

It is normally men who are the NRP because of complicated economic and social factors and I support the court processes actually as I think they need to be robustly supportive of the rights of men who want access to their children. It is unfortunate that we have an adversarial system which is the main barrier to the smooth running and productivity of family court proceedings but I think a lot of the alternative dispute resolution services actually make up for this. I don't see how the processes could be better. I think PWC need to be threatened with contempt of court but this needs to be applied fairly. I think courts do need to see the behaviour of the NRP.

I think it isn't great for victims of domestic abuse but I don't see how it can be avoided as ADR can't be used for these situations and there are measures in place for protection which do help.

The problem that does exist is the legislation which emphasises a right to contact with both parents and is interpreted in practice as a right of a parent to contact with the child. It is based on a spurious interpretation of research and British prejudice in favour of marriage/two parent families. The research says stability and quality of contact is most important not any kind of contact with both parents and so the courts are not always really able to work within that framework when making contact orders if the NRP is actually being unreasonable as what the child needs to thrive is often incompatible with what the law provides and what the NRP is asking for.

I'm not sure what I think about punishing NRP for not complying with orders/bringing vexatious cases as this fear could put off genuine fathers with unreasonable PWC from applying to court when there are already financial and emotional barriers and contact with a good father would be so beneficial to a child. But fathers4justice are wrong in everything they say and do I think.

offred thanks for sharing that

I let him come in the house, because it feels weird going from being married to him, to him not being allowed in the house. I want it to be as amicable as possible for the kids. I don't mind sharing a meal with him, I'm still interested in his life and his well-being. We were married for 10 years and have 2 kids. we share friends and are close to each others family members; its not so easy to disentangle 2 lives, is it?

I wont go to mediation becasue in is in some ways EA; we have had mediation as part of teh divorce process and it was horrendous. He lied and was manipulative. What he said in mediation regarding child care just dont resemble the reality of his actions....

when he brought kids back from park, he said he wasn't sure having them all day Friday was going to work out and how would I feel if he was to have them Friday afternoon and Sunday afternoon instead

I do take on bard what you are all saying though, about getting him out of the house...ned to work on my feelings about that...

still not convinced of the usefulness of getting 'proper contact' arranged through a solicitor...hes not more likely to turn up is he? it just sounds like a whole lot of effort and hassle on my part....

thanks for letting me off load. there is not really an answer is there. Hes never going to change. My fault for marrying the fucking stupid bastard

I am not saying they are punished necessarily but the orders should be null and voided automatically and the responded should not have the cost/stress/time of getting it varied if the NPR has consistently ignored something (not shown up) they have gone to court for. Esp if they have used legal aid money to do so. This would require some monitoring which could be costly I guess.
Otherwise is sends out IMO a signal that they can come and go as they please esp. when it isn't costing them anything and I think would result in less vexatious cases.
I have every sympathy for those parents who are prevented from having contact with their children for no real reason and they quite rightly should have the right to seek that this is addressed. I find it hard to imagine how if your child has been loved and cared for by their parent you would want to stop that.
The spectrum of cases on the same order principal is so broad and I agree the `child's right' is turned around as the right of a parent - the current one fits all approach is wrong.
I also agree about societies view of the women's role over the men's - to me it is equal.
The research says stability and quality of contact is most important not any kind of contact with both parents and so the courts are not always really able to work within that framework when making contact orders if the NRP is actually being unreasonable as what the child needs to thrive is often incompatible with what the law provides and what the NRP is asking for. are you saying this is the case or what you think it should be? I feel stability and quality of contact is more important and can be applied to almost every situation.

A37
It is not your fault that he isn't giving your children the parenting he should. I totally understand how you feel about wasting time on the solicitor route and if you are happy for the situation to continue as is, well it may only be every now and again it gets you really mad - then leave things be and maybe try again some other time. When you get another partner it will all change again. Just don't want him to have the EA opportunities you say you would get in mediation - at least you are not on your own in mediation.

Sorry though op for taking over with that. I've found a lot of great support available from "the system".

I would say don't make yourself responsible for his parenting you'll run yourself down and only enable his crap behaviour. When my xp got short shrift wherever he turned he did actually buck up a bit.

It has not changed who he is but he does come once a week for 1.5 hours at a set time.

Only help him out in the strictest sense of what is good for the children which for me means trying to facilitate xp's requests from my end expecting that he will see the children regularly, articulating why it is important and challenging him when he does something stupid. But no joint family meals/days out or pretending we get on. We are civil. My son desperately wants his dad to move back in and I don't want to give him the impression there is any chance of that and I'm not going to pretend what his dad did to me or is doing to the children sometimes is in anyway acceptable because I dont want them to learn it is acceptable.

Have you spoken to women's aid? He is being very controlling and bullying to you and they really are fab IME.

Second that it is absolutely not your fault. It is a tightrope I think because you should be amicable (I am very amicable and pleasant and helpful with xp to the point he sometimes thinks I am his friend ) but part of helping you all adjust to the new situation is having a physical divide between your homes and to a lesser extent your parenting. Without this it is really just the worst of marriage and the worst of splitting up.

I can sympathise so much if I think back to how I was at first. I went from crying over him and trying to get him to come home, to being "understanding" and fussing over him, to realising what was going on and feeling utterly terrified to asserting myself - which is the stage I'm in now. He is ATM still walking all over me sometimes and I feel constantly on my guard that he'll take some liberty which puts me in hot water where the dcs are concerned. It is really hard. The biggest thing that helped was support from my children's centre and women's aid to gain a physical and then psychological separation from him.

It is six years on btw.

Avenue - I'm saying the right to contact with both parents (as is currently the law) is incompatible with what the research says about the need of the child for stable good quality contact with a NRP if the NRP is intent on being unreasonable i.e. bringing a vexatious suit for a contact order they have no intention of actually sticking to.

Gotcha Offred - totally agree.
Good luck A37