seems I am married to a manipulative bully after all who is always right and never apologises

[bonhomiee]

Oh dear

I am so fed up of being undermined and blamed for things and generally criticised. Also being talked down to in front of the dc and guests.

I had thought our relationship wasn't going too well due to resentment and basic incompatibility about a year and a half ago. I asked him to leave 15 mos ago after things came to a head but after a heart to heart he said he did think highly of me and things would improve. That we would get on, parent the dc together for their sake even if we were not having an emotional relationship as such.

However, another row this morning over one of the dc activity led to me losing my rag[no dc present] and calling him a manipulative bully because he is always right, never sees anyone elses POV and likes to have his own way. I had told him I was ferrying dc to this actvity [last night and this am] and then heard him talking to ds this am "I thought I was taking you but she wants to take you so I'm not." Cue crestfallen ds and me like a lemon.
I said I'll only be a minute, was just trying to help and was going to brush my teeth, came back down and they were on the way to the car!! Without even telling me they were going.

I said I was taking him and we went but asked dh what he had done that for... this has happened before, to be told its because I "was in bed" and would have missed it

I asked him if I was reading the situation correctly to say he had not a good word to say about me and had no intention of getting on fairly for the sake of the dc.

This led to him calling me an obnoxious person telling me to piss off and to shove my reading of this situation up my backside because it was absolute rubbish.

This led me to telling him I want him out that this charade can't continue and wasn't helping anybody

Where do I go from here?

[bonhomiee]

happened again today, he took ds to school instead of me ..I have the week off specially for back to school and can't usually do school run when at work.

Got up to find ds rushing to go with dh as dh offered to take him in instead of me..a bit that ds obviously preferred to go with dh..why ?

i think its fair enough, just would have been nicer if dh had asked me about it instead of just taking over again.

I feel he is intentionally undermining me and taking over.

I feel I am continually battling him ..When the older dc were younger dh would not do school run as they were a bit more of a handful. I guess he just wants to do everything with ds and thinks he can.

I just don't know how to handle this without it being a battlezone.

[bonhomiee]

Well I seem to be totally stumped and don't trust myself to be reading this correctly.
I think he is a bit of a bully but at the same time I know I am fairly sensitive and hate confrontation so that doesn't help.
I like to do things my own way but I try to make it fair. But I feel I never get my own way and feel under pressure to always do things his way.
I also get cross and frustrated at his behaviour but am also quite cowardly about getting him to leave and breaking up the family...yet how can we stay in the same house like this.

I am meeting a friend over the weekend maybe she can help me find some perspective on this.
My dc think we are both cross and argumentative.... they don't seem to see it like I do. I had a chat with my adult daughter last night and she thinks dad can be mean but that I can also be cross and shouty.

[JugglingWithFiveRings]

Hi bonhomiee - I hope your friend will be able to offer some support and insight when you meet up ... sorry not to get back to you sooner - I do recognise aspects of my own relationship in yours. I think it can be a hard call whether to split or not sometimes - maybe in the mean time you could try to get across to your DH the importance of a united approach to DC's and better communication.
It would certainly be driving me nuts to have DH changing plans like that at the last minute. As I said my DH can be almost as annoying at times x

[Markingthehours]

Oh Bonhomie - as soon as I saw your thread title I knew this would be a emotional abuse thread - such a typical trait that never apologizing tactic.

You know you will drive yourself mad agonising over whether you are reading this stuff straight or not. Most of ea is very subtle and damn right the big baby bullies perpetrators are always careful not to have other witnesses to their behaviour who could validate your perceptions.

Your H is using your DC to get at you isn't he? It's part of their attempts at control - to get everyone 'on their side' so that you are isolated and weakened.

If he thinks he's gone too far he will back off and be nice to you for a few days - and then the cycle will start all over again. Please be absolutely sure - he will NEVER change.

I put up with this sort of thing for years and within a day of leaving felt so much better and at peace for the first time really since I married him.

My only regret is that I didn't leave far sooner and spared my DS being exposed to my X's awful, abusive behaviour.

HTH - PS try to make sure you get some time away from him where you truly relax. Living with an abusive twat is very stressful and exhausting.

[bonhomiee]

Thankyou very much for your posts
Juggling..itis hard to decide to split because I suppose other people seem to like him, although he doesn't have any current friends, just work colleagues who he gets along with superficially and friends from the past who he hasn't seen for many yrs but has recently started fbing. We don't have any joint "couples friends "...he blames me for this, obviously, but in fact it was so embarassing and demoralising having people over I gave up and just see my female friends on my own now.

Marking..so sorry to hear you have been through the same. Sadly I nearly left many years ago when the two older ones were toddlers... but had no money and he shouted me down about I'd have no money,nowhere to live etc and I had no family and was a SAHM

He is really not on my side is he? So he is at best self interested and at worse doing everything on purpose to undermine me ,make me unhappy and get the children from me.He rewrites history so how are the dc suppoed to have a true version of events? And how can I tell them that actually, your dad is a lying bully? It was almost easier when he was angry and intolerant with the dc in years gone by...they didn't want to spend time with him.Now he is mainly like that with me, and presents himself as the calm one[I get upset at current conditions and at rows/situations created by him, he doesn't,he's quite happy as long as he has me put in my place].

Unfortunately I am a very honest and straightforward person and do not play mind games and try to be fair..so I can't "Play him at his own game"

I worry that he will change the truth of the dc childhoods,painting me as shouty and cross for no reason and he as reasonable apart from married to someone stroppy... children have short memories and are influenced by an adult telling them something as truth...its hard for me to distinguisg so harder for them to sift through and see it may be lies.

[ratbagcatbag]

Hi Bon.

Thought I'd chip in if that's ok. My dad was like this and as a youngster eager to please I always picked him over mum, because I could feel
Him literally glowing with pride when I did. He was exactly the same to my mum, made all the decisions, put her down, snide comments disguised as jokes. And you know what when mum became stronger he upped the anti, a few slaps here, pushes there etc, it wrecked my teams and I was beaten black and blue every week in the end. I finally hit back at 16 and he became scared of me as he'd lost control. He left and I will never see him again, it's taken me and my brother years to overcome it and my mum still struggles. Get out whilst you know you are strong enough. I wish my mum had years before. Good luck. You are amazingly strong.

[bonhomiee]

ratbagcatbag

Oh my God, that sounds absolutely terrible, poor you and your poor mum.
I don't think he is anywhere near at that level and would not physically abuse anyone, but is incredibly self centred and does make the snide comments disguised as "jokes" especially when I am ahead of the game as it were... I always found it odd that I have been fortunate to be quite clever and had good luck in other ways but he bigs himself up and puts me down...It doesn't make sense. he thinks he knows better than me o every level.

I think, everyone wants to be on the winning team, so when you are in his good books its a nice place to be, like you and your dad...As you probably found out to your cost though it can change like the wind depending on the driving force for his behaviour.
A really good point well made, it would stil be worth me getting out then , instead of waiting until ds is 18.

I suppose the reason for dithering on my part is that he doesn't seem as bad as what other people have experienced and I still keep thinking I can "fix"it .

[airedailleurs]

well you have just described my stbexoh to a tee, I am lucky that I have a way out and will be taking it very soon...Good luck and be strong Bonhommie, make a space for better things to happen to you

[JugglingWithFiveRings]

Perhaps like my DH Bertie he shows elements of abusive behaviour in certain situations ( Mine is much worse in stressful situations, though unfortunately he can become stressed quite easily, perhaps one reason he often behaves badly towards me in the car)

Only you can decide if his behaviour has crossed the line of what is acceptable to you. Personally I'm prepared to forgive some things, but it would be easier with an apology sometimes ? But I don't think there's much mileage in hoping they'll change. From what everyone says it seems more likely that, if anything, they'll get worse.

I'm just keeping my options open ATM

[bonhomiee]

sorry, a last point..I keep telling him I want to separate or want him out..last saturday for eg when I started the thread... he knows what I said, that I have had enough and I want him out that he has spoilt every saturday morning for the last twenty years and I can't take anymore..but he is ignoring it, instead choosing to make tea and smooth things over.

I couldn't look at him or speak to him that day but now am just civil and polite. It was complicated by the fact that the next day I was at work and not at home.

Why does he not take on board that I am saying I want him out...I gave him a chance to improve 15 mos ago or it was over, he improved,but it didn't last long and now if he thinks as little of me as he does, why on earth is he not agreeing with me and arranging to separate???

He called me "an obnoxious person" on saturday and said"Ask the children what they think they'll tell you"... so time for separation, yes? Why would he want to stay? On previous occasions he has said"Off you go, I'm not going anywhere...so he only wants the house//dc isn't it? So to keep my self respect, we have to separate altho I am worried about how it would work with my work and childcare...coincidence I just started a new contract?

[bonhomiee]

yes yes to the car

"Didn't you see the sign?"
"Shut up will you"
"Don't tell me what to do!"

and yes to the easily stressed ...any trip, any holiday, Christmas[fgs] and mornings.... blame, spoiling things..but when his dad is there at Christmas, he is sugary to him and obnoxious to me, in front of everyone!!

[JugglingWithFiveRings]

What does he do to ruin all your Saturday mornings, bonhomiee ?

• I could say my DH has ruined every car trip for the past 20 years !
  

• I know what you mean when you say "I can't take any more"
  

• would it be an idea to see a solicitor to talk over practical issues of separating ?
  

I think they often offer a free initial session ?
Perhaps someone else knows more about taking those first steps towards separation ?

Sounds like you've decided he's stepped over the line too often ?
(And with no apologies or ability to make lasting changes)

[SoDesperate]

He sounds exactly like my STBX exactly! I put up with it for all my life virtually and if it wasnt for MN, well I dont know where I would be :(

I missed the chance to have a fulfilling relationship with a partner who might have truly cared about me and my kids are messed up. Please work out what you want and go for it, dont settle for anything less than the best.

[Bossybritches22]

Bonhomiee- only YOU will know when the right time is to leave, or throw him out. But for your own mental health & that of the children long term I think you KNOW what you have to do.

This is NOT normal and NOT acceptable behaviour from one who is supposed to be your partner,co parent and best friend.

There is more to life than this and you can grab it with both hands.

If you can bear it for a little while longer then bide your time, get advice & make plans
-solicitor, ask what can be done if he refuses to go.
-look at housing options, are you on the joint mortgage/tenancy
-start getting yourself in a better financial position, pay off personal debts/credit cards slowly to avoid alarming him.
-if you don't have one get a sole bank account, or line one up.
-make sure you have up to date copies of his payslips/income/savings
-if DC's have passports put them with yours somewhere safe
-make sure the DC's have new shoes/winter coats sounds daft but all expenses at a time you might not have spare pennies.

I know this sounds harsh but believe me it can make it so much easier when you do finally end it & gives you a feeling of being in control.

All the above is with the proviso that if at any time you feel in danger of violence to you or the DC's you get out.

Good luck

[bonhomiee]

I suppose being really unhappy is enough reason, but I thought I was doing my best for ds. He seems to love being with dh atm. Worried he chooses to be more at dh than me if we split.

But from others' experiences on here I can see that ds is trying to fit in, to please him and be in his good books, that dh is manipulating us all[ although he does care about the children I think, and want what is best for them long term deep down]Although he cares about himself the most.

I can see that two parents at war which can't really be resolved is worse than splitting up. I have heard of friends recently who were in a similar situation, and the separation has led to her dc not speaking to her long term..they are totally on her dh side.

However, I will be happer without dh breathing down my neck all the time and having a go at me..I can have friends over and have a party for eg without it all being such a palaver. ds would be happier. There would be no arguments and I can bring ds up with my own values.

[bonhomiee]

He was "trying to work out what was wrong with them" on the paralympics the other day.In front of ds fgs.

[bonhomiee]

well plentyof food for thought there thankyou

main issue re separating will be.. where will he live and who will look after ds when I work on a night shift...maybe he could have sleepover with dh or local friend on those nights// evenings..but see above re dh taking over, I would have to be very firm.
very very firm.

[amillionyears]

op,it is up to you what you do,and when.
If you were to show him all this in here,together with a comprhensive list of what you want and expect from him,and it being kept to long term,what would be his reaction.
It does sound like he wants you to stay with him.Do you think that would be because of love,or control,or both.

[bonhomiee]

His initial reaction would be sneering and scoffing "What a load of absolute rubbish.."
Then if he saw I was serious he would say"You have to change too.."

Then he would be upset, 15 mos ago he cried.

[bonhomiee]

I think he loved me a lot at the start. His true personality did not show through and he was on my side. He was still a bit selfish, lazy and unavailable tho sometimes.But no inkling of what he is really like back then.

His brother says he has always been argumentative and competitive,they don't get on.

After getting married,When daily stresses got in the way he was always stressed and unreasonable, found fault and blamed me for most things in the universe. This has carried on.

Now over the last 5 yrs our relationship has broken down, after really he let me down in a way I can never forgive. It was a dealbreaker. So now I really despise him. Since then, he is like before but tries to curry favour with the dc while treating me as above. I want to separate but he insists not to and I think it is just about the house and dc. I don't think he wants anyone else. I think I could have found another partner in the past but am now getting older and don't want anyone at present. Since all this his traits have got worse and worse and he lies to big himself up and not apologise or admit any wrong. He wants his own way, self promotes and self justifies. However, he has been like this for years, it was there before. He's fine if you agree with him on everything.He can't communicate and doesn't want to.

So now am in the situation of the relationship has broken down and he won't agree to separate and I'm not sure what the consequences of separation will be. He overtly treats me badly in front of the dc..disregards my opinion, puts me down, laughs at me,makes derogatory comments ,says it is just ajoke, makes unilateral decisions, won't apologise and won't change. He manipulates to get his own way.. so if I disagree about anything he raises his voice and says"Insert reasonX why something can't happen, you don't know, I know better than you, et etc"

[JugglingWithFiveRings]

I must say I'm disappointed in the extent to which my DH is prepared to use the DC's to add weight to any argument (on his side). Like you say bonhomiee it's not as if you can consider using similar tactics. So immature

[airedailleurs]

As a target of this kind of behaviour myself, I have tried many times to understand it but just can't get my head round why any man would treat the mother of their children in this way...does anyone have any insights?

[ratbagcatbag]

The thing is with dc they can't see it at the moment, but do long a you remain strong no matter what he says then it will be ok. I'm
Sure he will make comments like. I want to live with you but mum is taking you away etc. you need to rise above it and be firm.

My dad was/is a master manipulator and everyone loved him, or so we thought, until
He went and then people told us how shocked they were by his behaviour.

Agree with the post above that says plan
Slowly, seek advice and squirrel money away.

Good luck

[bonhomiee]

Its hard to make the decision.. trying to make it in everyones bestinterests and its finding the courage and beief that its right...I wonder if by changing myself, maybe forgiving him and starting again he would be like he used to be..he is kind to his parents but not to his brother and SIL.

I think , if I were really easy going it would be ok, we are just so incompatible.

I know I have contributed the last few yrs to the breakdown, but we are so different it is not working. The thing I can't forgive.. he never even apologised.

[ladyWordy]

Sorry to hear you're experiencing this too airedailleurs....

Why does he do that is very clear analysis of this behaviour and the attitudes behind it.  I have my own views on where the attitudes come from...

Also this thread and its  resources might help 

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1514011-Support-for-those-in-Emotionally-abusive-relationships-number-10

bonhomiee the chances he will go back to the man he used to be are vanishingly small, it's heartbreaking.