Only going to end terribly IMO - need advice

[wine0]

DH and I have a wonderful marriage, I'm very happy with 2 glorious children. The one problem in our lives is my DH's gambling! He has been visiting the casino for 5 years now, we are not in debt, have a very comfortable life and ave substantial savings. About 3 years ago he began going without me knowing one night came home crying saying he'd lost a thousand pounds. He started going o GA and then stopped after a few months saying it wasn't for him because he was in debt with it and felt a fool going and hadn't see himself as having the same level of problem.

He has never gambling that amount since, thankfully but in this last 12 months has been going again spending anything up to £100 a time and the stake money and the winnings go back into our account whenever he wins. Up and til recently if he lost we wouldn't go again until he'd saved up for a good go. I was ok with this - not ecstatic but ok.

Within the last few weeks he has started going a little bit more than. Woudav liked and after losing not leaving it as he did before but drawing money out again and going.

Last week he lost £100 and he agreed that he needed to leave it for a while and promised he wouldn't go for a while.

Today I checked our online banking (I do this every day now) and £40 had been taken out. I was furious as I had an awful feeling that he'd been again today. I text me and he replied that he had. Ths is the 3rd time within 9 days now! I was so mad that I have told him to leave the house and go to his mothers until he can start putting me and my feelings before roulette.

I love him but I cannot see a happy ending if things continue. We are not in debt, have good savings but my question is fow how long? Am I to keep listening to him tell me he only gambles with money he can afford to lose and put up with it or do I try and make him see how badly this could end.

Am I overreacting? Does he have a problem? Am I right to ask him to go to his mums and think about things.

So many questions. I feel so low but mostly so angry and stupid for letting this carry on and carry on.

Thanks for reading

Sorry for all typos. My iPad is not the easiest to type on.

You're not really overreacting. If any of the above was an isolated incident it would be annoying. As a repeated pattern of behaviour in spite of saying he wants to stop and promising to stop he's being deceitful and that's never healthy.

Have you or he established if he genuinely has a gambling addiction or if he simply enjoys gambling? Does the casino represent excitement, sociability, relaxation or something else? Would you enjoy an evening there if you accompanied him? Do you go with him ever?

Obviously the £1000 incident was pretty bad but I can't work out from your description how often these £100 sessions take place. How would you both feel if you were to treat it the same as any other hobby, budget a sum of money each month and, win lose or draw, that was his limit? (Obviously, award yourself the same sum for your leisure activities) I know a few people that put modest amounts of money on horses each week but give themselves a limit. It's takeaways all round if they win and no big deal if they lose.

GamCare might help, it has an online forum where he or you can chat about problems and get advice and support from other gamblers. It also has a helpline.

I agree about groups as usually they focus on the worst cases, like the AA I suppose. But it doesn't always have to involve a huge crisis in order for there to be a problem. Some people are just very dependent on little amounts, like those who need a drink everyday but are not necessarily downing bottles of vodka in one go.

He is dependent and the trouble is that any kind of stress that exists in his life will be dealt with by gambling. He needs help but remember that you cannot seek that help out for him. You can't force him to confront this problem, especially if he denies that there is a problem. You can only encourage. If he doesn't accept help then you may have to accept that there is nothing more you can do but decide whether or not the relationship can carry on the way it is.

It may be the £100 here and there now, but how much if left unchecked?

To be honest, that would be a dealbreaker for me.
I had an ex who was 40k in debt due to gambling - nothing to show for it. He wanted to move in with me. I got rid.
That money is your holidays, a nicer house, your children's inheritance.
If he is going even when he knows how upset you will be, it is probably an addiction.
Also, most gamblers are very accomplished liars.
Sorry.

How much do you dislike it?

If he had a gambling account and put eg £50 in per month and winnings/losses were kept within it would that be ok? Could he keep that discipline? If he went for that option than for me it would be an ok solution.

but it must be wearing having to check up all the time because you don't trust him to set his own limits.

Of course if it's an addiction he probably won't be able to stick to it...although some alcoholics can keep to their limits....

He came home and we talked...a lot. He has admitted he has got giddy (his words) with it and agrees he's gone too far. He said he tries to justify it because we do have substantial savings, a healthy current account and 2 very good wages going in every month. He has admitted he's being selfish and stupid and has promised he will stop and to give him 1 more chance.

He has told me that he'll give me his cards and not go.

I have told him that if is to go again then he will have to leave and stay with his mum. I have also told him he would have to tell his 7 year old DS and 3year old DD.

I'm not sure if this was the correct course of action but he said that me telling him to leave shook him up and realised he'd taken advantage of my good nature. He said me and the kids were his life and he was sorry.

I have my doubts about whether he can do this but I suppose he knows if he does go again then he will have to face the consequences which I would be determined to follow through.

Thanks for all your replies and I think you are all right that he does have some type of addiction that if not controlled now will get so much worse.

To be honest, if it is only £100, that is affordable, isnt putting you in debt, and is not depriving the family of anything, I would not be bothered if I were in your position.

A night out these days can easily cost that much money, a night at bingo isnt much cheaper either.

wine0, I am certain he does love you and his children very very much but an addiction is like an illness. He probably meant every word of what he said to you but keeping those promises is going to be an uphill struggle and without professional help he is statistically more likely to fail.

If he were really serious about giving up then he would contact a gambling charity or organisation or even his doctor and he would do whatever it takes to ensure that his addiction is treated. I doubt he can go cold turkey on his own. What action is he intending to take now that he is all "shook up"? Or is he planning on just stopping?

Please talk to him again and tell him that words are one thing, action is quite another and it's action you need to see. Not because you don't trust him, not because you don't believe him but because the power of addiction is so strong that it can break bonds and tear families apart, despite the best efforts of the addict. He might not think he is a serious addict but the fact that despite warnings from yourself, he can't seem to help himself rings alarm bells.

I hope he can recover from this illness and that your future together is a lot brighter for it.

squeakytoy, it's not the £100 that is the issue. He once lost £1,000. It's the fact that he is taking money to gamble in secret almost, behind her back. The fact that he is doing it despite promising not to. The fact that he can't quite help it. The fact that he is taking money more and more regularly.

Today it may be £100 but like any addiction, once it becomes regular there is more at stake and his gambling sessions seem to form a pattern of stopping once he has a shock, then slowly creeping up again to be a habit, then stopping, then forming a habit again.

Gambling, like smoking and alcohol is an addiction and you do need treatment in the form of professional help in order to truly quit. Even then the longing is always there, it never goes away which is why reformed alcoholics never touch a drop because if they did, they might not be able to stop. It's why smokers who have quite still dream of having a cigarette or reaching for a fag after a meal. It's always there still.

Thankyou rhubarb. I completely agree and we did talk about GA and it is something he said he would look into. This morning I woke up still believing that he doesn't really think he is an addict or has a big problem but in reality i truly feel he does. You are right it isn't about the £100 or the £40 yesterday but about the increasing regularity of his gambling despite telling me he's having a break. We can afford the money at the moment but it's where it's all leading that is my worry and which is why I need him to get a grip before it completely takes over our lives.

I will talk to him again tonight. He said he understands my concerns and said he agrees that it's now in the verge of obsession but I now, waking up this morning wonder if it was all said because he knew it was what I wanted to hear and the truth is he doesn't put himself into the same category as an addict.

We need to talk more I know. At least I can be open on here and know that I'm not worrying unduly or overreacting about this which is how I've felt in the past. Thankyou for your excellent words because you havd nailed the reality of our situation.

wine0

I think you need to talk to Gamcare and call their helpline. Talking to a gambling addict to get them to seek help or sense is about as effective as spitting in the ocean.

You are not in debt - yet but that happy scenario may well not continue. He is putting you all through a very rocky time emotionally as well.

No I do not think it is wrong of you to ask him to go to your mother's. I would have a forensic look at the family finances as well to see if there is any hidden debt.

I notice too that your DH stopped going to GA meetings. That was and is a bad sign. At that time he was not and doubtless is still not ready to properly face facts and is like many addicts in denial of his problem.

Where's your tipping point here with regards to this - are you prepared ultimately to walk away from him if gambling continues to come first in his life?. This is what is happening now; talk is cheap, its actions that count and he is not ready to deal with his addiction.

Thanks Attila, I've made it very clear that I no longer want roulette in our lives, full stop and that if he is to choose that over our arrange and children and go once more he will have to go to his mothers. Beyond this I haven't thought any further to be honest and ultimately I haven't envisaged a long term split or break up. I guess I hope it won't come to that. I have been on the phone to our bank, savings bond and ISA and all are still in tact and are all in joint names still. I have made it abundantly clear that if takes out any loan or gets in any debt I will not be signing and of our savings over to him to clear the mess and our marriage would be over. Again the threat of this will hopefully put a stop or make me realise that I've had enough and he has to get help o stop completely.

I feel I need to give him the chance because before it come to a head over this last week or so I have been letting him go and have enjoyed the winnings when they've come. If I truly thought he could have an account with a set amount in it for gambling and he'd stick to it I would suggest it but I honestly think if roulette continues to remain in our lives then one day he will come home and tll me he's gone too far and we are in debt. I think it is all or nothing with him and he agreed last night he finds having a balance difficult so it has to be nothing for me and he agreed.

He is saying all the right things but I also know that words are easy and cheap. He usmy husband 'for better, for worse' I feel I need to give him the chance to put this right now he fully understands my position on his gambling. I feel like prior to last night I had always said I wasn't happy but then excepted it and been happy when he walked in with a substantial win so had given him false signals. He categorically knows now I am deadly serious about him stopping and knows the consequences should he decide to go.

He is a member of gamcare so I will ncourage him to post and ring the helpline I think.

I feel I am to blame partially for enjoying the winnings. Does this make sense?

Whilst he denies that there is a problem, that in itself is a problem. Perhaps it would help if you printed out the bank statements and circled all the times he has withdrawn money to spend on gambling. Tot up how much in total he has taken out, how many times he has taken money out, how much each time and look to see if there is a pattern there. Sometimes seeing the problem in black and white does help. Also you can point out the times he has taken money out and not told you. If he doesn't think he has a problem then why keep it a secret from you? Only a guilty mind does that.

No you are not to blame for enjoying the winnings. If dh won at the Grand National I'd sure as hell enjoy it! But then he only gambles once a year if you don't count the lottery. In your case what you have to point out is the more he gambles he more he risks losing it all and so pretty soon you won't be celebrating the winnings but counting the cost.

Yes he will say what you want to hear and perhaps he does mean it, but the addiction may well be too powerful for him to stop alone. I take it you've made these threats before and heard these promises and this again is a sign that he has a problem. If he could stop, why doesn't he? Why go behind your back to gamble despite promising not to? The simple answer is that he can't not gamble, the lure is too powerful, it provides him with a hit like any other drug, he is on a high and at the moment he can't get that high from anywhere else. A proper counsellor will be able to look deeper into that and discover what triggers it - in fact if you look at his patterns of spending you might find that out yourself. You might be able to tie it in with a bad time at work, or family problems, the birth of a new child or just plain boredom.

I hope he can take it seriously and I hope he keeps good his promise to get help because the odd win here and there is not worth losing his family over.

Problem is as well its not as easy as saying to him you want roulette out of his life. He will likely agree with you but still play roulette all the same.

The following may be of some use to you:-

Tools for family members of problem gamblers:

Start by helping yourself. You have a right to protect yourself emotionally and financially. Don?t blame yourself for the gambler?s problems. The right support can help you make positive choices for yourself, and balance encouraging your loved one to get help without losing yourself in the process.

Don?t go it alone. It can feel so overwhelming coping with a loved one?s problem gambling that it may seem easier to rationalize their requests and problems ?this one last time?. Or you might feel ashamed, feeling like you are the only one who has problems like this. Reaching out for support will make you realize that many families have struggled with this problem. Or you might consider therapy to help sort out the complicated feelings that arise from coping with a problem gambler.

Set boundaries in managing money. If a loved one is serious about getting help for problem gambling, it may help if you take over the family finances to make sure the gambler stays accountable and to prevent relapse. However, this does not mean you are responsible for micromanaging the problem gamblers impulses to gamble. Your first responsibilities are to ensure that your own finances and credit are not at risk.

Consider how you will handle requests for money. Problem gamblers often become very good at asking for money, either directly or indirectly. They may use pleading, manipulation or even threats and blaming to get it. It takes time and practice to learn how you will respond to these requests to ensure you are not enabling the problem gambler and keeping your own dignity intact.

Do?s and Don't for Partners of Problem Gamblers

Do
Seek the support of others with similar problems; attend a self-help group for families such as Gam-Anon.
Explain problem gambling to the children.
Recognize your partner?s good qualities.
Remain calm when speaking to your partner about his or her gambling and its consequences.
Let your partner know that you are seeking help for your own sake because of the way gambling affects you and the children.
Understand the need for treatment of problem gambling despite the time it may involve.
Take control of family finances; review bank and credit card statements.

Don?t
Preach, lecture, or allow yourself to lose control of your anger.
Make threats or issue ultimatums unless you intend to carry them out.
Exclude the gambler from family life and activities.
Expect immediate recovery, or that all problems will be resolved when the gambling stops.
Bail out the gambler.
Cover-up or deny the existence of the problem to yourself, the family, or others.

HTH, you have a long and hard road ahead. He may well ultimately not want to stop gambling but that is his choice. You can only help your own self at the end of the day.

From Gamcare's website:-

If you are concerned about the amount of time or money that you or someone you know is spending gambling, you can talk in confidence to our advisers, one to one, by phone or online.

HelpLine: 0808 8020 133 (Available to people living in England, Scotland and Wales.)

NetLine: www.gamcare.org.uk (Available to people living in England, Scotland and Wales.)

Both the telephone and online helplines are available 8am ? midnight, 7 days a week. Calls to the HelpLine are free from landlines and most mobiles.