My confession - I am thirty years old and still scared of my mum.

[RabbitsMakeBrownEggs]

Is this normal to still have such an involved and stormy relationship with your mother? I have literally woken from a nap where I was dreaming she was in bed, but when she woke I knew she was going to be steaming mad with me, and there was that old dread of her going loopy at me.

Truth is, we fell out a few weeks ago, and even though I know we've both sort of done the "water under a bridge" thing, she's still very angry with me and this will be back to bite me. She's already done the passive aggressive "this is what you could have had" grandiose offer of a holiday for the kids, but only in the one week when both kids were away - reason being she's mad I contacted DD's dad and she went there to stay, which my mum hates and disagrees with. She's off now this week on a holiday, left after both kids got back and said she was going to do exact same holiday last week, so the one off thing doesn't ring true to me.

Thing is, when I called for support because I was struggling for behaviour, she only made it harder by adding more stress to my plate with her reaction. So I was in a no-win situation where my health was poor, I hit mental health crisis and I needed to organise some time off. I have literally raised my DD for the past four years without help (barring financial help from my mum), so I don't think it's much to ask for her dad to do a week. He may have not been much involved, but he is her father and some good has come of this week, in that we have been able to organise once monthly contact and my DD is ecstatic to have her dad around. I feel like my mum should be happy with me, but instead she's angry.

I still feel like a hopeless bumbling child around her, and she treats me as such, all because I have mental health problems and sometimes struggle with my lot in life. What would be a normal mother's response to a sick adult child?

^What would be a normal mother's response to a sick adult child?^

caring loving support, asking what would be helpful then doing that, not deciding what you need and refusing to back down, letting bye-gones be bye gones after a row, or even better saying sorry and making up. Telling you she loves you and that you are doing a marvellous job despite your difficulties, supporting her DGC in pursuing a relationship with her dad......

but what you really need to work out is how to live without her making your MH worse and working towards limiting her power and control of you and reducing her negative impact on you external and internal world.

Now there's a project!

if there is a magical cure I could do with it too

I am a bit older than you and still fear my mum. She can be very loving and supportive, but can turn in an instant. She especially becomes agitated if she believes I am slacking off with house or children. She has no problem if any other family member is down with a cold and wishes to rest. If I should be taking a nap mid day, she will hound me to get up and take care of business.
sighs I wish I could be of assistance OP...I feel your pain..

OP This doesn't sound good for you.

You don't sound like you want to have this sort of relationship with her.

How would you like things to be? What can you do, to change the way you interact with her?

If she's not mothering you the way you want/need, then perhaps you need to look for that kind of warm, loving interaction elsewhere. From female friends or other family members. Seriously, if she's not helping, you can't "make her" just by wishing it, going back again and again then being hurt.

You can only change yourself, not her.

Hasn't it ever occurred to you that your mother's being so nasty may have something to do with your MH problems?

Yes DistanceCall - she works in the field, so any time I contact her she tells me off for "not taking responsibility for my problems" and starts her therapy talk, when actually I am just calling to let of some steam because my DD has been difficult again.

Alas, whilst the advice she gives is good stuff, I am being seen by someone who deals with those issues, and my mother spent a good part of my childhood enabling my alcoholic father and herself being aggressive and flying off the handle at anything we did that was remotely childlike. Then my teenage years were marred by her having affairs and using me to cover for her, generally putting me into the crossfire between her and dad, and told me all manner of things he had done to her not really for young ears.

I guess the most important thing for me to learn is to stop calling her when I am at emotional lows, because she never gives me what I need at that point, which is a listening ear, some sympathy and some offer of support or ideas on what to do that don't include criticising my ability as a mother.

I know that she wants me to do well, but I honestly think we are stuck in some sort of harmful cycle where we just do each other more harm than it's worth. I try to back off and cope alone, but then it eventually gets to the point where I have a bad day and call her and it all starts again.

I got a book about Toxic Parents, but she doesn't exactly fit any of the profiles so I am a bit stuck on how to go forwards. I've stopped unnecessary contact for a while, she is on limited facebook profile and I have my close friend back from America, so have somewhere else to go.

Can't we salvage something though? I do still just want a loving, healthy relationship with my mum, but she barely acknowledges that anything that happened in the past formed me and that I struggle to do my best, but my mental health seems to go up and down a lot - I do have loads of stress on my plate though.

If it makes you feel better, my mom is over 70 and my gran is 100 and she is still yearning for her approval.

And TBH, my mom inspires respect on me too. :o

I think it's fairly normal in daughters, although to different degrees.

I meant to conclude in the second paragraph that she is not the best place for me to be getting recovery advice as she is someone who I am very angry at sometimes and it's not an appropriate relationship to have together, it's mother and daughter, not counsellor and patient.

I agree, and that's why counsellors should not work with relatives.

You should tell her to back off with the advice. But you have to be prepared for the fallout and possibly inevitable distance between you too.

I will have to practise that in my head. Avoiding the calls rather than saying that is what is wrong with how I feel right now. I need to be able to be assertive and stop being terrified of my own mother.

OP distance is your only solution here, I am in a similar situation, have had therapy, on antidepressants due to flashbacks from homelife

mine is a constant critical presence but only if I let her. That is your secret here too, that you ought to only allow her into your life when you are ready, and you must keep a boundary or distance

you have done well to have a DD and raise her - SHE is your priority, just as I tell myself that yes while my mother is my family, that is something that I cant change, I CAN change that I see MY immediate offsrping, not her, as my priority

and go from there

be kind to yourself and take one day at a time. keeping busy and planning a good future for you and your DD, which is nothing like the childhood your mother gave you.

at least you will know you are one step ahead of her by giving your DD a more peaceful homelife for a start

good luck

(can highly recommend evening primrose oil tablets and escalitopram - ask your GP) controlling parents are the worst, but you must take daily steps to focus on you rather than her, and your DD, rather than her wishes etc

ps does she live far away? physical distance is always the best, as well as emotionally cutting the umbilical cord, so to speak

Your mother doesn't sound like a narcissistic person from what you say, but clearly your relationship with her, as it stands now, is doing you more harm than good.

This doesn't mean that you should not have any relationship with her whatsoever, but you need to have a different one. Currently you seem to be in the position of a child asking Mummy for reassurance, and she's not playing the role of the warm, nurturing mother you would like her to play.

I'm glad you're seeing a professional - you should have someone to talk to when you are low, but definitely not your mother, because what you tell her then basically feeds into her own neuroses. She will probably never accept that her role in your upbringing had any effect on your long-term problems, though. But that isn't the point now, because you don't need her to, as long as you are aware of it.

And by the way, she doesn't sound like a very good therapist if she was an enabler towards your alcoholic father.

So talk to a professional or even friends. Not your mother.

Sorry to hear that when you turn to your mum for support, you get the opposite. Glad to hear you have a friend you can go to for support. My mum is really supportive and helpful with the kids, and if I am assertive about the way I want my kids looked after she does listen, but I am still scared when I have to tell her that I want to change an arrangement, or do things differently. Mothers are powerful creatures. I think it is very interesting that she works in mental health, but has failed to support those around her in developing good mental health. I wonder if this is a pattern with mental health professionals?

She wasn't a therapist when she was with my dad, she left him and got a mental health nursing degree and trained in CBT therapy, she does a really good job - has great awareness of her own co-dependency and has made massive steps towards changing that, but we still seem stuck here.

I will accept that I am a difficult person to be around, but mum can be super critical and when she thinks she is helping, she is actually being quite aggressive, whereas I definitely work better with a gently gently approach, otherwise I just end up back as a child panicking about criticism.

Our past just gets between us, I guess I am really angry right now, up until a couple of years ago I couldn't even accept that my mother did anything wrong, she was a co-victim and my father was all to blame. Now I am just really cross that my mum didn't protect me and she let me have that childhood, and now I am damaged by it. Perhaps that's why I feel like she should fix it when I am struggling.

I've been looking into al-anon for myself, to perhaps try to start getting past this anger that my childhood was lost to violence, alcoholism and being made to chose sides between my parents and support my mum when she should have been the one supporting me. I've been diagnosed with an anxious personality disorder, so I know I am likely going to have to develop coping skills rather than looking for a fix, it's just trying to find the correct place to access it.

Your mum is used to having control over you and from a very young age you've been trained to fear and avoid confrontation and give your mum that control but this has meant that you are suppressing your own anger and resentment and suppressing who you are. It happens quite often that unhealthy parent - child relationships spill into adulthood as it's hard to break these patterns - you struggle to believe you aren't dependent on her and she struggles to cope with her lack of control when you make decisions on your own that go against her interests. I think that with professional counselling you will be able to gain faith in yourself as a person in your own right and break the pattern of turning to a mum who has never been able to support you adequately. To raise a child on your own takes a lot of strength and you need to give yourself credit for this and for building bridges with the child's father. You are better than you think you are. It may sound flippant but I often think mothers are a bit like parachutes - if they fail once - you won't be using them again! Good luck with your therapy and don't lose heart, you can break the pattern if you really want to xxx

beautiful post Jac1978, such good advice in there, it has helped me, and hope it helps OP too

OP - therapist recommended 'grounding techniques' when I get overwhelmed and anxious in everyday life. Google it and you will find lots of help.

also did a session where all the bad memories were more or less washed out to sea - visualisation is a very powerful aide in these things

do you live close to her? or do you at least have some distance? I am 3 hrs away from mine, siblings live much further away. None of us have any wish to get close to her, out of self protection, nothing else.

toxic

She moved a bit further away after my step-dad had a brain haemorrhage to help him recover, so it's certainly easier to not be in each other's pockets.

I think it has helped that my best friend's MIL has told me to come to her when I need help, she is the one who drove me and DD to her dad's, and has offered to do the once a month trip for us too. When I was vomiting sick and my mum didn't want to know, she came to the house and prepared my DD some dinner and sat with me for a while too. She's really great, but I am very aware of not wanting to overdo that and appearing ungrateful. I think I will definitely call best friend or MIL first before ever calling my mum, to make sure I am in a fit state. Best friend comes and stays when I am bedded down with kidney infections too, my mum just reckons I should get on with it, but they are really knocking me off my feet every few months now.

My main worry is having this same relationship with my daughter - she is being assessed by CAMHS (I never was and I needed it) and I have been on parenting courses and learned to use 123 Magic to help me with discipline. We knock heads still and it's very easy to slip into repeating the same loss of control with temper around her. I take my medication religiously to try and counter that, it does help as stress shows up as shouting and loss of control with my kids. Just want to somehow manage my relationship with mum so I can have her in the kids life too.

I guess iwouldsuggest that you take te pressure off yourself in trying to please her by trying to work out how your kid can see her - it has to work both ways remember and she has to earn that fime with your DD!

Your DD will learn to see her GM once a month or less and accept it as normal

We saw mine less than that growing up and accepted it as such

Stop putting pressure on yourself to please her with visits from you and dd and maybe fill the gap by getting DD to speak to grandma on the phone then hang up when the chat is over, without you having to chat too though, that may help you feellike you are giving DD contact at least, but without toomuchinvolvement from you

I do this with my DCs and it works well

Hth

I guess the most important thing for me to learn is to stop calling her when I am at emotional lows, because she never gives me what I need at that point, which is a listening ear, some sympathy and some offer of support or ideas on what to do that don't include criticising my ability as a mother.

this - you've hit the nail on the head here!

I can relate in lots of ways about your mum, the only difference is I'm not afraid of her (any more) and I couldn't give a stuff what she thinks about how I do things such as parenting! I think you either need a specific thing to happen or decide to draw a line in the sand and realise that your mum is only human just like you, her opinion or way of doing things is not some kind of law or something to aspire to... As a single parent I think you are quite capable of making your own decisions and mistakes.. The problem is that when you confide in her she thinks you want her to fix things and you are almost giving her permission to. If you stop talking to her about matters of heart she will have no choice but to accept they are your business under control.

You do not need your mother's approval for anything at 30 years old.. But until you believe that she will continue to have a hold over you.

I too think you're right about not relying on her for support when you are low. Put a note next to your phone! Can you manage to only call/see your mum when things are going well? And then don't tell her about anything that is going on that she could possibly criticise. Just chirpy chirpy happy happy superficial.

If she starts criticising/going loopy, could you be very vague and distracted - "mmm, aah, really, mmm" and then interrupt and ask her something about herself - what she has done this week, about her hobbies, something totally superficial. She probably won't be able to resist the change of subject. If that doesn't work, you have an urgent appointment elsewhere. Bright and breezy, smile, talk over her, and leave.

My mum doesn't fit any of those profiles either. I backed off loads and realised how much nicer life was without her. I guess I just stopped one day and thought "what does she add to my life?". Answer - stress. That's about it. And then I thought, but I owe her, don't I, she loved me and nurtured me and sacrificed herself for me in my childhood - oh, no, actually she didn't. I was there for her needs. Then I dared to criticise her, which caused a huff in which we didn't have contact at all. That was so bloody lovely that I made it permanent.

It's hard. You have to grieve for the mum that you never had. You have to stop hoping for support or approval, cos it isn't coming.

Lights House is a good site too.

hell, I'm 47 and still fear my mothers disapproval, Its HARD to break free, great advice on here !

It's all really weird at the moment. I am having nightmares every night of my mum off in the other room and me in mine and the anger is palpable between the two rooms.

Then last night I was screaming horrible things at her, really childish things some of them, and she was screaming things back at me. Then I read books and escape into a fairy land dream.

I am not sure if these are memories coming back or if they are me working things through in my head, but I do wish they'd stop.