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Original poster

Is THIS rape?

77 replies

wellisit · 22/08/2012 22:41

The whole unbelievable george galloway thing got me wondering, not for the first time, whether something I once went through was technically rape? I can't say it affected my life that much other than to make me grow up and feel a bit squirmy and ashamed/dirty when I think of it, but I can certainly see why it'd be a grey area and there's no way I'd seek a conviction even though I despise the twat.

You're in bed with a man, you want to be there up to now, he is between your legs, the moment has come so you say to him something like 'ok big boy, time to put a condom on then' and instead of putting one on, he just carries on without a word, plunges in and in literally ONE thrust, has come in you....hm.

It was worse than just disappointing. I didn't want his cum in me! I certainly didn't want to be pregnant, or take the risk of a disease. He wasn't a loving partner, little more than a one night stand.

I lay there feeling angry and squirmy for a while as he just went off to sleep and then gathered up my things and hurriedly left in the dead of night feeling dirty.

(He wasn't a teenager or anything, he was in his 40s, I mistakenly thought older men would be good in bed!)

Soooo, is that rape? I kinda think yes, as my consent ended the minute he didn't put a condom on, but certainly not as bad/damaging as what two of my friends have been through with work colleagues and minicab drivers. Or, am I just a dramatic silly girl?

OP posts:

solidgoldbrass · 22/08/2012 23:01

Yes, technically it was rape. You had consented to sex with a condom, not to sex without, so your consent to the insertion of his penis was withdrawn as it was uncovered.

I think it would be pretty much impossible to get a conviction or even a charge made against him now; his defense would be that he 'forgot' you wanted him to use a condom, or that he 'didn't hear' you asking him to put on on his dick.

But that doesn't mean you are wrong to be angry and disgusted by his behaviour. It was disgusting, selfish, entitled and horrible.

CalamityJ · 22/08/2012 23:01

You were consenting to sex but the terms of the sex you were consenting to were safe sex (condom mentioned) not unprotected sex. I can see why it's such a contentious area because no one writes contracts, no one sets out what is and isn't OK before they start but I do think it is up to the man to LISTEN to what the woman is saying and if she wants to use a condom then that is what he needs to do to have consensual sex. Anything else is non consensual and therefore rape.

The issue is when men think women don't really mean what they say. So if you say "OK then time to get the condom out" he's hearing "Way hey! I'm gonna get laid!". Then perhaps think if he ignores you you won't mind. George Galloway said it was merely "bad manners" not to ask a woman if it's OK to have sex with her again once you've done it once. Precedence is no indication of future desires! In his eyes, if you don't ask her, you've merely been "rude" or "inconsiderate" not "real rape" (whatever THAT is/isn't!). I hugely disagree. Just because I've had sex with my husband hundreds of times doesn't mean I want to tonight. And he needs to ask me if I want to rather than go ahead without my permission because otherwise sex without consent is rape. Equally, just because I've been on the pill for years, doesn't mean I haven't had an upset stomach, been on antibiotics, accidentally forgotten to take it so on that occasion he needs to use a condom to prevent pregnancy (he doesn't just press ahead when I say "OK condom tonight" because he cares about the consequences). And I wouldn't be agreeing to have sex with him without the condom because I wouldn't want to get pregnant so if he carried on without the condom then that would be rape.

Well that's my opinion anyway!

laluna · 22/08/2012 23:02

"you say to him something like 'ok big boy, time to put a condom on then"

No it's not rape. IMO, by saying the above, you are consenting to sex. Contraception is something to be discussed and sorted before this point.

Cynner · 22/08/2012 23:08

I would think the time to consider the condom issue would be before you climb into bed with someone. That being said, I believe a woman has the right to say no to any sexual act at anytime..before or during. Just because a man is erect and ready to enter does not mean he is not in control of his behaviour.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 22/08/2012 23:10

Clearly you don't feel you consented to what he did to you, so I would say regardless of what a court would decide I would say that he had raped you. You consented providing certain provisions were met, I.e. he put on a condom. When he decided to ignore that and penetrate you anyway, he was going against your will and making decisions about your body that were counter to your own. I'm so sorry about what he did, and I do believe you.

MoaningMingeWhingesAgain · 22/08/2012 23:11

I think your consent was conditional - you consented provided he wore a condom. He didn't = it was without consent.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 22/08/2012 23:12

No laluna, by saying that she meant "put a condom on before things go any further". If someone ignored a perfectly clear request like that I would be shocked beyond words. It's not being a fusspot, it's asserting your basic human right to decide what does and what doesn't enter your body.

StuntGirl · 23/08/2012 00:59

Yes I'd count that as rape. Sorry.

Krumbum · 23/08/2012 01:21

Yes That is rape. My consent would go the second he entered me without the condom, and he is fully aware of that.

tallwivglasses · 23/08/2012 01:50

Yes you were raped. What a sad fuck he is.

kittyandthefontanelles · 23/08/2012 06:13

Had you actually specified no sex without a condom? I'm afraid that isn't clear to me from your op.

ErikNorseman · 23/08/2012 06:48

Yes, technically it is, and it is a massive violation of your body. Huge. He inserted his semen into you without consent. While the act is not in the same league of trauma as a violent/coercive rape the consequences to your physical and emotional health could have been catastrophic.

MountainsMove · 23/08/2012 07:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

wellisit · 23/08/2012 08:32

I just assumed we'd use a condom to be honest, I thought it was normal to use one unless in a stable relationship! I was concerned about how late we'd left it, hence my comment at the last possible moment, it was supposed to be a sort of 'ahem, hello?' thing. I didn't think I'd been secretive about it - the memory is hazy now but I know I carried my own and pretty sure I got one out of my purse and held it up, put it on the bedside table and so on....

What got me thinking was that I always thought it was on the quiet, but then i heard on an R2 discussion somebody say in repsonse to the george galloway something like once the 'door is shut' and you're in their house, you can't be changing your mind!? And you can't just change your mind halfway through. I thought, surely you can? What if they try putting up the wrong 'un, or, what happened to me? Saying/seeming like you want to have sex isn't consent to EVERYTHING, is it?

OP posts:

Original poster

wellisit · 23/08/2012 08:33

to clarify 'always thought it was on the quiet' I mean 'i always thought is was indeed rape on the quiet'

OP posts:

Lueji · 23/08/2012 08:43

Unless he didn't hear it, it was rape, plus a range of other issues.
As stated before, you could have got pregnant, or caught something serious.

Trills · 23/08/2012 08:45

At the very least it is assault (which is a much vaguer term)

Trills · 23/08/2012 08:46

And it is definitely very wrong of him.

OneMoreChap · 23/08/2012 08:53

ErikNorseman Thu 23-Aug-12 06:48:32
While the act is not in the same league of trauma as a violent/coercive rape

Wait a minute, what? We're typing rapes now?

To OP, yes, it was rape. He probably doesn't realise it, but it was.
Why would you think 40 year olds were good in bed?

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 23/08/2012 08:57

The guy did not have reasonable belief of your consent when he penetrated you as you had indicated that your consent was conditional on condom use. On that basis, yes it was rape.

Iirc in the Assange appeal it was claimed that sex without a condom in this way wouldn't constitute rape or assault in the UK; however, I believe the uk high court ruled that, as laid out in the arrest warrant, yes it would. I will double check the ruling when on a computer.

Also the people on tv saying once the door is shut you can't change your minds are wrong. And also they are asshats.

StealthPolarBear · 23/08/2012 08:59

I don't know about legally, but yes, I guess it was rape, as someone else said your consent was conditional. And ywnbu to assume a condom would be the norm IMO.
I'm sure you know but just to reiterate, you may feel squirmy about it but you have nothing to be ashamed about.

Trills · 23/08/2012 08:59

Why would you think 40 year olds were good in bed?

I read it as that she was young at the time and assumed someone with a bit more experience would be better than men (boys?) her own age.

StealthPolarBear · 23/08/2012 09:00

I don't understand this once the door is shut comment (maybe I need the context). I ahve been in many rooms with men with doors shut. Amazingly, they did not have sex with me!

Ambrosius · 23/08/2012 09:00

I would feel extremely violated if that happened to me. I think it is rape.

TheDoctrineOfEnnis · 23/08/2012 09:02

I read it like that too Trills.

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