Can someone help me understand my daughter please...

[Concentrateonthegood]

I'm so very sad. I used to say that it wouldn't matter what had happened, nothing would affect the close relationship I had with my two daughters. Well something has changed and I can't rationalise what the problem is. DD2, 30, has two kids 6 and 4 and was separated from her long term partner a year ago. It was her choice to leave and I supported her through that. Since then, she has focussed on finding a new relationship rather than focussing her efforts on her children. She's been out with about 7 guys in the last year and 4 months ago, she started a relationship with someone that is around her age and has never left home and never had a serious relationship before. They don't live together and he is still at home with his mother. She has changed beyond all recognition. She has pulled right away from us (my mum, my other daughter etc) and is so cold towards both my other daughter and I it's painful for both of us. I used to see her and my grandchildren every week and since the new man arrived on the scene, I'm lucky to see them from one month's end to the next. I miss my beautiful grandchildren and I miss my daughter. To illustrate our closeness, when she was pregnant with her second child, she said I hope it's a girl mum. I want to have the same closeness that I have with you.
Last night, I was asked round to dinner because it is getting on for six weeks since I last spent any time with them and my 6 year old grandson was playing on the new boyfriends xbox. It was such a violent game, I was shocked. I mentioned it to DD2 and the only response I got was that she didn't think it was a problem and all his games had violence in them. The game was for a 12 year old, he is a little six year old. I tired to reason with her that the age grading on the game is for a very good reason and I couldn't make my point to her. It was almost as if she was protecting the new bloke rather than her little innocent boy. She told me she was having an early night (at 8pm) and I had to leave. My little grandson blocked the door and was saying, I don't want granny to go, I don't want granny to go. It was so upsetting for me. If my daughter is so happy in her new relationship, why is she so miserable with her family and what really is going on here. Appreciate opinions on this because I don't recognise this person as my daughter at the moment.

Wow, that does sound like a shift.
It is hard to assume without either your dd or your grandchildren telling you something. I think you need to talk to her but she may be wrapped up in this relationship to a point that she can't see the change, she may be being manipulated, she may be depressed.

I think sometimes we lean on family in times of trouble and then sometimes be a bit superconfident and not need them when we think we are doing well. I think all you can do is be there when she needs you and let her know that she can approach you whenever. Perhaps organise a girly day/ something you did before to relax her into opening up?

She doesn't sound like she's behaving entirely normally, no. I take it you've not met this bloke? Do you (or does she) have any real evidence for the "never had a relationship before" thing? That bit sounds a bit odd - the never left home bit, maybe not so much. What does he do?

(I think the computer game thing is a red herring TBH, unless you think it's part of the change in character that she allowed him to play it. Opinions vary wildly on this.)

By the way, what (roughly) went wrong with her previous partner, and has she always been coupled up since teens? It's hard to say without knowing her history, but I wouldn't say there's anything wrong or unusual about getting back into casual dating fairly quickly - some people find it's part of the recovery process, others prefer to take time out from the whole thing. But I do agree it's quite unusual to get into another relationship so quickly after finishing a fairly long one.

I have a friend who has a 32 year old daughter who has no children and a 34 year old with two children. When the single 32 year old has a new boyfriend, she seems to have lots, weeks can go by and there are few visits. When she is single again she pops in more often, and assumes that as she is happy then everyone else should be too and assumes they would be glad that she is happy and of course understand that cant be in two places.

My friend on the other hand misses her when the new boyfriend is on the scene. As it is the daughter with no children it is only the daughter that is missed, but if she had little ones too she would be hurting more.

I suggest that whilst she is going through this massive transition and trying to find someone to spend time with that until she settles you ring her often and keep all the doors open. Another friend has recently divorced and has a new man, and after seeing her family every Saturday for 23 years now wants to spend weekends with her new man and her family are angry, hurt and disappointed, but they encouraged her to find someone new, and now she has cant understand why she wants to be with him. They feel dumped.

It must be so hard for you, but give her a little time, a lot has gone on for her and she needs to adjust. Keep the doors open, keep in contact and be happy if she is happy - she will come back to you when she is settled again I am sure.

I do hope no-one comes on here telling you to mind your own business OP.

I would also feel very concerned and I do think the video game is a red flag actually (though I am very Victorian about these things I admit). Though not just because the game was inappropriate but because it could imply she was protecting her P and standing by something she doesn't necessarily think is really ok.

Have you met him then?

I'm not sure what to suggest to be honest other than being there for her. And yes maybe try to spend time with her alone? It's tough as the more you try to contact the more she will think you are stifling her.

Sorry you are so worried x

I have a friend who has a 32 year old daughter who has no children and a 34 year old with two children. When the single 32 year old has a new boyfriend, she seems to have lots, weeks can go by and there are few visits. When she is single again she pops in more often, and assumes that as she is happy then everyone else should be too and assumes they would be glad that she is happy and of course understand that cant be in two places.

My friend on the other hand misses her when the new boyfriend is on the scene. As it is the daughter with no children it is only the daughter that is missed, but if she had little ones too she would be hurting more.

I suggest that whilst she is going through this massive transition and trying to find someone to spend time with that until she settles you ring her often and keep all the doors open. Another friend has recently divorced and has a new man, and after seeing her family every Saturday for 23 years now wants to spend weekends with her new man and her family are angry, hurt and disappointed, but they encouraged her to find someone new, and now she has cant understand why she wants to be with him. They feel dumped.

It must be so hard for you, but give her a little time, a lot has gone on for her and she needs to adjust. Keep the doors open, keep in contact and be happy if she is happy - she will come back to you when she is settled again I am sure.

whoops so sorry posted twice

A word of caution, and a massive generalisation ahead but bare with me. Someone who lives at home with his mum at that age, having never had a relationship before is NOT someone that someone who has 2 children should be having a relationship with. Their ideas, expectations and experiences of responsibility are completely different. And yes, I speak as the bitter ex of someone who was just like this. I had dc and everything that that entails, and he had no responsibility, none, his mum even cooked all his meals and did his laundry and it was just an insurmountable barrier. At the end of the day, if he had moved out (and tbh I now doubt he ever will as he has it so easy) he'd have expected me to do all his mother did for him. He's a grown man so not likely. Someone like that will eventually resent the children and they will suffer for it. I am a hater of computer games anyway so am fairly horrified at anyone who thinks violent games are ok. I do feel sorry for you though. It must be hard to see your daughter doing this to herself. Why did she leave the dc's father? Has she had counselling? It sounds to me as if she's desperately unable to be on her own.

She's morose, uncommunicative and completely wrapped up in the new bloke. I have met him a handful of times, the last of which he slagged my grandchildren's father off in front of them. This is just not on as the children love their dad and just was very inappropriate of him to do this.

DD2's relationship with the kids' father was rocky for a couple of years. He was a selfish bloke and focussed on his hobbies rather than his family but my daughter isn't perfect either and also has her selfish tendancies. She just fell out of love with him I think. Given what I've read on MN over the last couple of years, they at least didn't destroy each other.

It's difficult that I can't reach her emotionally. She's hyper-sensitive and losing her temper over really minor things. She's got no patience with the kids and that was one thing I always was proud of her for as she had unending patience with them and was a really good little mum. They now appear to be a bit of inconvenience to her.

Can you contact her ex in confidence about the children as she doesnt sound like she is doing right by her children at all. Maybe he can do something abbot that and about the inappropriate games. It sounds like an awful situation and I wish I could suggest something else but I think their father has a right to know. I feel very very sorry for the children.

You say you've met him a handful of times but have you had him round to your home with her and the children?

If not I suggest you do this (even if you don't approve of him) as I think when she is at your house she may begin to see him through your eyes. If is his behaviour is poor it somehow will show up more in your home.

It's worth a try anyway.

Its only a year ago that she left her long term partner? And now this new guy? I'd bet she has depression, coupled with the feeling that you're all judging her (you mention 7 boyfriends - does it matter? - as long as the kids aren't being introduced to them as their new dad I'm not sure it does) and now she's probably fallen for a bit of a twat by the sounds of it but love does funny things to us. I feel sorry for the kids but she'll soon fall out of lust and wake up and realise what she's doing... I think I've she's been in a loveless long term thing and now the hearts and flowers of this new man she's prob a bit blind to it all.

I say that as its exactly what I did. Word for word. Including being a. Bit cold towards my dd (shamefully). I just got a bit bored of being responsible and had a wild time for a bit (at 30 too). And I moved my mum out (we'd always lived together, shared a house). I got fed up of her worrying about me and I needed some space. She was heartbroken and its only now I realise what an idiot I was but I never stopped her seeing dd.

We are now 3 yrs on and rebuilding our relationship. I am remarried and have an 9 week old ds. Dd is fine and we are back to normal. It was a blip. Ii would just keep holding out the olive branch. Include her new partner, don't judge her at all and offer to look after dc as much as possible to give her a break. If the new man is abusive it will come out. Then you can help her.

Thanks everyone - I don't judge the "7". She was dating and I was pleased she was getting herself out and about but it was the "need" to find a replacement that I was concerned about. I guess she is a bit of a needy person. During that phase, she would talk with me about who they were, what the dates were like etc etc. The new man is a nice person - there is nothing obvious to dislike about him or distrust him, apart from the error of judgement over DD2's ex. He has been made welcome in my family even though what I disapprove of is the level of involvment he has in the children's lives in such a short space of time. I just want my grandchildren to be prioritised in her life and her to return to being the caring, protective and nurturing mother she was. Secondly, I wish for my relationship with her to return to being the one we both always worked hard to have.

Appreciate all your points of view. Thank you

Morning OP, hope you've had a good night's sleep and a chance to reflect.

Pippop's is a good suggestion.

I'd be very wary of contacting her ex behind her back TBH, this doesn't seem particularly respectful of her boundaries. Obviously if you thought the children were being seriously mistreated it would be different.

If I have this right, what we know about the children is that (a) they are allowed to play computer games you don't approve of (b) she is a bit impatient with them these days and (c) the new man is being a twat and slagging off their dad in front of them. Oh, plus (d) their mum went out dating when she broke up with her partner rather than "concentrating on the children" in the way that you clearly think would have been preferable.

As far as I can see (c) is the only unequivocally troubling thing here, and sadly we can't do anything about this new guy being a twat (yet!). When to start seeing people again after a breakup, and where to draw boundaries for children, these are matters of individual autonomy, and you are entitled to give your view but ultimately they are her decision. The impatience thing may or may not be an indicator of an underlying problem with the new man. It could also reflect the fact that she is adjusting to parenting on her own, or a tricky stage in their emotional development. The trouble is we don't know the counterfactual - what would she have been like with them at this stage if it hadn't been for the new man. It could be that the man is a symptom of her feeling down and overwhelmed, rather than the cause.

I completely accept your feeling that she has changed, and is going through a rough patch of some sort, and I agree this man doesn't sound like great news. Nobody is better placed to know these things than you. I believe you. I would just be very wary of dressing that feeling up in any particular clothes, if you see what I mean, particular if it might in some lights make you look a bit judgey. The computer game thing is a case in point. If I had kids and my mother tried to say that to me I'd probably argue the case for the hell of it, even if I slightly agreed with her, because I'd see it as an aspersion on my parenting and feel defensive and embarrassed. If I was depressed and not thinking very clearly, it might also make me see her as "the enemy" and I'd become even more wary. I wouldn't have the spare energy to calculate that she was probably doing it as part of a wider pattern of worrying and caring about me.

Rather than picking on individual things that you think are wrong, I would try to stick to that wider pattern, and if possible talk to her about the general sense you get that she is unhappy. Nobody can argue with you about what YOU feel and your fears for someone else's wellbeing, whereas they can easily argue with you over a computer game, or the timing of a few dates.

If she just isn't responsive at all, then all you can do is keep in as much contact as she allows, and wait for her to come to you.

I know someone who did just the same after a traumatic separation. She spent the first 2 years looking for a new man and then spending every moment concentrating on the new relationship rather than sorting out the old one or dealing with her 3 year old. It was quite horrible actually.
I think she was a bit needy, a bit depressed, had always been in a relationship and couldn't bear the thought of being a single mum. She regressed to being a teenager and fell out with her supportive parents constantly. She got caught caught up in the first flush of love thing and enjoying feeling young again. At the same time she says she felt when she was married she was a grownup and now she was single mother she had failed.
Her rebound relationship didn't last and she settled down eventually and started being a parent and a daughter again. She was nearly 40. So there is hope.

I forgot to say the more her parents tried to point all these out to her the more uinresponsive she got. The smallest implied criticisms set her off. She felt she was being judged. Are you in a position to offer to take the kids off her hands for a few hours now and then - then you can continue to have a relationship with them and wait until she needs you again.

I dont think right now there is a huge amount you can do, it needs to run its course. I hope this is a blip

I do think however that grandchildren need to see more of you, so I would focus your efforts there, just say I really miss them, I never see them anymore. I want to have them over, is that OK?

agh, life eh?

I find it horrific how many women put their own selfish desires above their children and think it's ok. I don't know what the answer is op, I think you should have a worse with their real dad.

word not worse!

Madbuslady - you speak a lot of sense. Thank you for all providing a different view point to me. It's all very helpful!