Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Problems with my brother and how he interreacts with other family members - need advice

41 replies

knittingblanketeer · 22/08/2012 10:30

Have name changed for this, as I mention security details at my dad's place, just in case anyone anyone "knew" me from my normal posting name. Am a long term MNer.

This will be long as I will try to put in as much back story as possible. My brother and I are in our late 40s/early 50s. My dad is a fit and healthy 75. My mother, to whom my brother was close (as was I) died earlier this year. She had had a long and happy marriage to my dad - but because she had been ill for a number of years (and we were actually wanting her to die for many reasons - not least the fact that she was absolutely miserable as a result of her illness), my dad is the one who has probably "coped" the best out of all of us.

Db has always had issues with his temper but normally this manifested more towards me. He also has a issue with me because I don't see enough of him and don't put enough of an effort into being friends with his wife. As a result, he thinks we are a dysfunctional family. Dh and I wonder if he has an idealised view of how families "should" operate, partly because all of our extended family are in other countries, so there was only ever our nuclear family unit in this country.

Dh thinks if anything, the dysfunctionality is in how often we meet as a family: there is a long standing tradition of going to my parents' place for a Sunday night dinner every week. Db still goes every week, but my family (as in dh, ds and me) now only go once a fortnight. Tbh, one of the reasons we reduced the number of times we went was 'cos db can be very difficult at times (pontificates, is always right) so we reduced how often we exposed ourselves to it. We love seeing my dad though - both my parents were great company and my dad has taken over my mother's mantle of cooking great meals.

When I was younger, we went through a stage of always being on tenterhooks as to whether my dad and db were going to argue. My mum had a way of managing to smooth over the water - but there were many times when I and his girlfriend or wife at the time would escape to the kitchen while he vented.

I need to add that db can be charming and has a lot of lovely friends (although even some of them would acknowledge he has issues).

He is now married to a very nice girl and they have 2 very young children.

There was a blow up at dinner on Sunday night over nothing - but mostly directed at me. My dad had a heated discussion with him in the kitchen telling he need to address his anger issues (normally dad tried to avoid confrontation) and at one point told him to look into the mirror and see his face as the expression on it was venomous. Db wants me to have lunch with him "to save the family" Hmm - but I've still decide if I want to as he's mistaking me for someone who gives a damn . not least because I'm actually scared of his anger. If I do have lunch with him, it'll be in a public place and even possibly with a friend placed strategically in the same place to rescue me if at some point I get too distressed.

However, that is not directly why I am writing this extended post. My dad had dinner with db last night (which he does most Tuesdays). He is going away tonight for 5 or 6 weeks to visit family and friends abroad. He told db that he was happy for him to use his place (much bigger than the flat that db lives in, with a lovely garden for the kids to play in).

He asked him not to switch the alarm on as it is not working properly and often goes off in the "other" hallway (big old house sub-divided into flats - although my parents' place has its own entrance). Db flipped at this and (apparently - all this is from my dad's description) started berating my dad, saying that he would switch it on and if dad disabled it some other way then he's put in another alarm system. It all got a bit unpleasant.

As dad was leaving and getting into the (small) lift, SIL was trying to apologise to him for db. Dad was telling her that he does listen to db's advice but that he doesn't always have to take it. Db heard this and then got into the lift with dad and started berating him again and saying if he didn't put an alarm in, he's have to visit the house every day to check that it was OK. He was physically intimidating my dad in the small lift and dad told him that he considered what he was doing was mental abuse, although he didn't add that he was (and he was) actually also scared that db's anger could also turn physical.

At this point, db said that he would never see dad again and that he would ensure that he never saw the grandchildren again.

Dad rang me this morning obviously quite distressed. He's always said (because he has been advised by his own friends and family) that he would not get directly involved with the issues between db and me (although db thinks he should). But now he's ringing me asking for advice as to what to do.

He doesn't want to leave on the plane with a heavy heart :(

My dad is coming over later. What do I say to him?

OP posts:
EightiesChick · 22/08/2012 15:48

Oh, and going back to your OP, I wouldn't agree to have lunch with him as he requests. You need to start dealing with him on your terms - if at all - not his.

knittingblanketeer · 22/08/2012 16:10

Eightieschick - yes, that's exactly what would happen.

I did used to walk out and go into the kitchen if he started to rant - but never said why. Even yesterday at db's place, dad says he just said he needed to leave, not why.

That's why I've said that in future we need to tell him why (that we don't like the way he is talking at us and that he is making us feel uncomfortable/distressed etc) and then leave.

Dad thinks that that might send db over the edge. I've said that that would be his (db's) problem and if he does so, dad needs to think about whether db should be invited to dinner again.

Dad is still sending him a letter - it's quite strongly worded and says a lot of the things that we have discussed on here (that dad felt physically intimidated, that it is his right to expect db to respect his home whatever db thinks about his attitude to security, that he doesn't feel it is his duty, whatever db thinks, to sort out problems between family members, that it is up to those individuals to do so if they choose - which is why he choosing to try to sort out the problem between him and his son)

OP posts:
knittingblanketeer · 22/08/2012 16:13

.... and I have yet to decide if I go for lunch with him. If I do, it will be on my terms, when I decide and at a place of my choosing so I can have a secret friend in place

OP posts:
diddl · 22/08/2012 16:31

I´d be very surprised if your brother hasn´t noticed tbh.

TBH, he doesn´t care enough not to rant & rave & blame everyone for all sorts of things, so I don´t see why he should take great umbrage at being told "we don´t like to see you as we are on tenterhooks waiting for you to blow up & ruin everything"

knittingblanketeer · 22/08/2012 16:41

You don't know my brother! Grin

....it's amazing the things he can take umbrage at!

Dad said he was sure that db surely realises that he is upsetting people - but I said we need to tell him. At the moment everything is my our fault. I am the one (or dad or dh or my aunt who made the mistake of trying to get involved she had believed his email that I was the cause of all the family problems ) who is in the wrong. (Said aunt, having been on the sharp end of one of his diatribes during one of her visits no longer sees things as black and white Wink)

OP posts:
diddl · 22/08/2012 16:43

What I should have put is that since he has no qualms about how he treats family, he has no right to take umbrage.

diddl · 22/08/2012 16:50

Well, I guess he either knows & doesn´t care, or doesn´t know & therefore needs telling.

What´s the betting that his response will be "how can anyone get upset by that?"-therefore not his fault or "why didn´t anyone tell me?"-therefore not his fault.

knittingblanketeer · 22/08/2012 16:53

No right to do so, but he will!

Actually, you've helped me articulate what I will say to him if he pressures me for me a meeting. "I have no wish to meet up with you as I would just be on tenterhooks waiting for you to blow up. I have no issue with SIL but I don't need to meet you". And repeat as necessary.

OP posts:
ChasedByBees · 22/08/2012 16:58

Why would you want to meet with someone who is so aggressive with you?

You do need to sort this and be direct. I have a problem if I'm trying to express something like this I find myself getting emotional even if that doesn't represent how I feel. If that's the case, maybe something written would help you be logical and factual.

knittingblanketeer · 22/08/2012 17:12

I am a wee bit sad that we are not closer as siblings. But I lived for long enough in a different part of the country and didn't feel the lack of him in my life. Just because we now live in the same city doesn't mean we have to socialise. He's my brother, not my friend. Maybe part of his problem is that he never left the city we were brought up in and expects that, even into your 40 & 50s, you still hang on to family like before you left home.

My family is dh and ds and my dad. I am closer to dh's sister as I enjoy her company. But she doesn't demand that I see her and get huffy if I don't. In fact, I don't think I've seen her for over a month (dh has popped in when he's cycled past her place) - doesn't mean we're not still friends.

I don't think I'm even going to email him. If he tries to make contact, then I'll do a response (either spoken or written) along the lines of my earlier post. (I must practice it in case I get caught when I am out and about!).

OP posts:
knittingblanketeer · 22/08/2012 17:20

Just practiced saying ^""I have no wish to meet up with you as I would just be on tenterhooks waiting for you to blow up. I have no issue with SIL but I don't need to meet you"." to dh. As I hadn't given him any warning, he got a bit of a shock at the first sentence as he thought I was talking to him! HmmBlush

OP posts:
diddl · 22/08/2012 17:24

Oh, it´s hard when you´ve moved away, isn´t it?

I would consider my sister & I close, although we are in different countries.

We are regularly in touch & see each other every other year or so.

We have an absolute scream when we do get together, but I don´t feel the need for more.

I don´t think she does either tbh-we are both happy with our lives/husbands/children.

If we lived close after so long away I´m not sure if it would change much.

Maybe as we got older, no children at home...?

fiventhree · 22/08/2012 17:33

It is a responsibility and assertivenss issue.

It is WAY easier to be assertive at work than with close friends and family.

I would buy that book, or one on boundaries, like the Henry McCloud one, and practice. I was always assertive but I also did find out that I do avoid confrontation when it is difficult. That is the most important one to have, given that family and friends are the most important.

We shouldnt let fear of not being loved stop us from telling the truth, even when it is uncomfortable for others to hear or for us to say.

knittingblanketeer · 22/08/2012 19:36

You're right fiventhree I am definitely going to have a look at the books that have been recommended. It might probably also help my relationship with dh :)

OP posts:
knittingblanketeer · 23/08/2012 10:17

Dad did email db yesterday just before leaving. It was a good email: assertive, saying how he felt, that he didn't like feeling physically intimidated, he had a right not to do so, that he expected to have his wishes about his own home respected, that he hoped the threat about the grandchildren was in the heat of the moment and leaving the ball in db's court.

Maybe db will have a chance to reflect during the 6 weeks that dad is away. Hmm not holding breath

I've also told dad that if at any point in future db starts to upset us when we are over for supper, we are going to tell him so and that that potentially means that we would have to leave prematurely (and not just retreat to the kitchen). I've warned ds that this might happen. I've suggested to dad that he does the same - although it might involve him asking db to leave until he has cooled down and also might involve db again threatening to withdraw access to the grandchildren. It's not an easy potential consequence for him to take - but may be necessary for the long term good.

OP posts:
ChasedByBees · 24/08/2012 22:12

Sounds great progress! I think it's necessary. Good luck x

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread