Affairs - how much of the iceberg do you reckon we actually find out about? And is it genetic?

[ickywickyyicky]

'H' no longer DH even in sarcasm has been having an affair - or a overly involved friendship with a single shag if you believe him. I don't! Keep finding things out little by little - but how much is he likely to be hiding? I told him I'd stay if he told me everything in one go - whole truth and nothing but the truth kinda thing. The wimp didn't even tell me that he had bought beauty treatments for his cousins from OW. In my opinion that's fairly light to be confessing to in terms of the contact he's had with her! So makes me freak about just what else he isn't telling.

According to his aunt, his father did the same (but H had no knowledge of it) and his FIL gave him a damn good talking to. Didn't stop him flirting with other women though.

Can't see the point of staying with him, but can't face dating again, and getting another twunt. He was the one that everyone said would never stray. Also have a DD to think about.

It took my H 18 months post-discovery and final marching orders from me finally put his ego in a corner and start owning up to some of the more vile details of things he did and lies he told. Too little too late for me, sadly.

My point is that unless it finally hits home truly and completely that he has been a self-obsessed twunt and realises what he risks losing, he will always be trying to hide the awful truth to cover his arse.

He might also believe that you wouldn't really stay if you did know the whole truth anyway (because he wouldn't), so what's the point in confessing all?

Its not genetic but there may be an element of learned behaviour i.e. if his dad was always overly friendly and flirty with women then your H might do the same. However, your H is an adult and knows full well that his behaviour was completely unacceptable otherwise why is he lying about it.

I think its more likely that he thought dad got away with it so why shouldn't I.

I initially admitted to as much as my DH had absolute proof of, and nothing more. Then I was told that if we stood any chance of working things out I had to tell him everything, because otherwise, each new discovery for him was like a fresh betrayal.

OM is now separated from his wife and he still only has admitted to what she can prove. She doesn't even know the half of it.

And no, I don't think genetics have anything to do with it.

I don't think its genetic but I do think it is learned behaviour.

Affairs are about the cheater's personality traits and how they deal with their own issues.

Cheaters are usually selfish and entitled people. Growing up they will have developed other flaws e.g being needy, attention seeking, poor self esteem and values/beliefs that may have influenced their choices. Many of these are often picked up or influenced by their parents.

I don't know of its always a genetic thing - my H comes from a very straight family where an affair would never happen.

Incidentally, my H was a man who I thought would never have an affair & all of our friends & family have been shocked & devastated by it.

My H kept back as many details as possible & lied through his back teeth about it until I found rather unpleasant concrete evidence. They will try & minimise it as they want to protect themselves.

It's always hard to know how to deal with it & what to do in your individual situation. It's the most horrendously messy pile of shite to wade through & I stuck with my H, but we are now separating for a while as he still can't decide whether he wants to really be with me. OW is off the scene, but I suspect my H is still in the fog of some of the feelings he had with her as well as feeling like the worlds biggest cunt, so he doesn't know his area from his elbow.

As for me, I'm not sure I want him either - I love him, but do I really want to rebuild a marriage with a man who is capable of bailing out & shagging someone else when life is stressful? When our DD2 was just 4 months old? I don't know.....

My H certainly had low self esteem but not many of the other qualities. He can be selfish & what he did was the most selfish thing I think anyone can do in a relationship...

In answer to 1) I think less than we like to think.

In answer to 2) it isnt genetic at all, but it is true that problems tend to run in families, and that has every thing to do with example set, feelings about childhood family life etc.

So man A is a cheat. Traits of manipulation, selfishness, womnaising or whatever abound in his family and are known , even if not discussed. His child grows up and does that too, either because of how that childhood made him feel, or because he learned that men do what they want, or he is untrusting nad messed up after divorce and god knows what else. That makes him vulnerable to being difficult in a future relationship, and possibly a cheat too.

OR, that man grows up and avoids cheating like the plague, as he knows the cost- he has rejected his past.

Also, some women cheat because they learned to compete for their fathers attention with OW, and saw their mothers doing the same.

OP - there is a good section on this in Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends.

He rejected drinking because his father drank too much - now he says he wished someone had told him his father had affairs ..... I think he was genuinely clueless.

MadAbout - I've read the Shirley Glass book - is very helpful. Was thinking about what others have found. Just can't work out whether to believe him or not.

Im in the same boat, and 9 months on. It was internet sex (he says) over five and a half years.

ALL one off conversations, he says, with over a couple of hundred women- different one every time.

He denied it for years, as I did discover some evidence soon after he started, and periodically thereafter.

Seems unlikely to me that they were all one -offs, especially the ones on his messenger account. Seems unlikely that he 'cant remember the details of the conversations because they were all the same'. Seems unlikely that he never met any of them, and refused any offers to do so from UK ones.

It doesnt help that he lied for a while after I forced them main confession out of him after Relate had started- eg there was no messenger account- and then he deleted it all.

Also, he doesnt drink much at all because his father was an alcoholic- and a womaniser, I now know from his mother.

He has changed very much these days, and I think he is honest with me about the present. But Im not at all convinced about the past.

My closest friend says I should let it go, given he has moved on from all that.

When I found about about my Dh's affair, and he begged to be allowed to stay within the marriage, I explained that one of my conditions was that I needed to be told the whole truth, and that should I ever find out at a later stage that he has lied then that would be it and he knew I meant it.

I did lots of digging around - googled on how to find out hidden files and did a massive search on the family PC, his work laptop, phone etc. I also went through all of his memory sticks. We also spent hours talking about the affair, going through my questions. So far everything has matched up to what he told me.

I think fidelity is genetic. I heard a thing on radio 4 once. I was surprised. Obviously free will can override this.
My own extended family anecdotal evidence supports this.

I reckon if you ask anyone who knows a couple decimated by an affair they all know more about The Deed than either side think people know. So yes. Think the victim often doesn't know full event.

I also think so called emotional affairs are 75% sexual but the (normally ) bloke doesn't get caught.

Christ. The obligatory reference to Shirley sodding glass !

Mad- if the h was onto your suspicions for years, there wouldnt be much to find, believe me. Tried google, memory sticks, old external hard drive, etc. I think that whatever there was was usually deleted but after the confession the lot went, even the messenger account and the yahoo account. So I only have his word for it.

We have spend days talking about it and it still does come up but he is adamant there is nothing more to tell.

The OP may well be able to benefit from your thinking there though- depending on her circumstances, and how clever the h is. Although it was admitted as face to face, so she could at least ask the OW.

Where I agree with you completely, is that if they are lying and you then find more, that's it, without a doubt.

yes, it is genetic

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_son_hypothesis

five - my post was aimed at OP rather than you. I agree that if he has been covering his tracks carefully for years, then its unlikely you will find out anything new

Ah!

I think bank and credit card statements could be good to look at if the affair was face to face. Unless it has gone on for ages and you frequently change cards.

I think its also worth looking at the whole time period- mapping it out on a laptop in months, and charting against it what else was happening in your life and his at the time.

I did that and it gave me some useful insights- eg I remembered weekend break in Ireland just after it apparently started in 2007, and that he was pretty weird at the time and off sex with me, and critical of the relationship along the 'we are drifting apart ' line.

Such a chart might also jog your memory OP about other things which can be cross referenced to the bank statements!

It doesnt have to be done all at once- just start it and add to it, as you remember what happened.

omfg - that link is just to a theory. Like most evolutionary psychology theories regarding psychology, there is no proof, just observation and hypotheses. I would take it with a huge grain of salt.

Personally, I think it's learned behaviour from his family - and for men in particular, a society/culture that says 'men cheat' and that's OK and example after example of that happening and the women turning a blind eye (see all footballers etc.).

You say you will stay if he tells tyointhe whole truth....he doesn't.....you stay anyway....he realises he doesn't have to.

One shag....I would be more pissed off with that as one shag is nothing to risk a relationship for. If you fall in love and have lots of shags then at lease that's believeable.

Cheats who get away with it may very well cheat again!

Linda J Macdonald: quotes that 90% of people who cheat have had parents who had affairs. Children look at behaviour modelled to them, no matter what comes out of their parent's mouths. [It is for this reason as well as getting myself a life/self respect, that I have retrained and gone back to uni - I KNOW I have modelled to my Ds passive and dependent behaviour. I KNOW they have witnessed many times my opinions wishes and needs being dismissed, ignored or overlooked. I KNOW I am lived the life the life my mother lived despite swearing I never would, and this is absolutely NOT going to claim yet another generation!)

He will deny, minimise and 'forget'. That is default behaviour. You will probably never get the whole story. The few men who do, go on to have better marriages than before (I have read this and lucky people on MN have said so) - but they are the exception.