How do you recognise and prevent financial abuse and organise family finance?

[toptramp]

I am currently single and finally enjoying it. One of the reasons for this is because I have complete control over my own finances. OK, I am a bit shoit with money but at least I have noone telling me I am apart from the bank (never happens). I have no rich husband to keep me but I don't have to ask for an allowance etc. I am stiill poorer than I would likr to be but keeping afloat.

I am open to having a relationship in the future but I am very wary of allowing someone else to control my finances. Has anyone in a healthy relationship worked out how to make the family finances fair? How do you compromise on spending and is having a joint account a good idea. If you have a rich dp are they generous or do you refuse help? Is anyone being abused financially? How do you prtect your assets in case of divorce?

I am genuinely interested in this as I fear financial abuse for personal reasons. Also, if anyone is a single parent who then finds a dp, does your dp contribute to YOUR dc or do you keep things completely seperate?

We have always had totally joint accounts, even when I was a SAHM. We discuss big purchases like furniture or holidays but anything else is up to us as individuals. Has worked for the last 25 years with only minor niggles when one of us has gone a bit mad in a month.

We have separate accounts but have a finance meeting every week where we talk about household bills and other costs - we then work out how we're going to pay them. We tend to split most things down the middle as we earn broadly the same amounts. We're very open about money.

Not a lot of people agree with how our finances work, and a fair few people (like my DM) are appalled that we don't have a joint account. It's our choice to set things up like this. Also means DH doesn't quite know how much money I spend on shoes etc!

Hi TopTramp,

Been with my DH for four years, we don't have any children (yet!), but this is how we work our finances:

We both have our own current account and ISA savings account, as well as a joint current and savings account. Our wages go into our respective accounts, and then we both put our money for bills (which we usually halve) into the joint current account, from which we have all our direct debits for rent/utilities/council tax etc set up to come out of. We have an understanding between us that the money in the joint current is NOT to be touched and is for bills only. We both have online access to the account, so it is fairly easy to monitor, if need be. Any money left over from our wages once bills have come out, which is not much, we keep in our own accounts and can use as we please. That way there are no arguments over him spending the last £20 on a video game, or me spending too much down the boozer!

For savings, if we are saving for something together, like a holiday/deposit on a flat/car, then we put however much we need to in the joint savings account. But, if I want to save for something specific for myself, say driving lessons, then I put money in my own savings account (and DH would do the same if there was something he wanted to save for).

There are some bills that I have that I don't expect DH to contribute to - for example gym memberships, payments for contact lenses, subscriptions, credit card payments etc. These are things that only I use, and I think that helps to keep things fair. Likewise he has some bills that he doesn't expect me to pay in to.

My Mum had some VERY bad experiences at the hands of my Dad and his debt, so I TOTALLY understand why you are nervous about joint accounts etc. The lessons I have learnt from their situation are:

1. Never hand over 100% control of your finances to anyone
2. Always have your wages paid into an account that only you have access to
3. Get internet banking so you have swift access to your accounts, and can move money quickly and easily if you need to

Very interested in this thread!

What happens if one of you owns a house and the other moves in? How do you pay the mortgage on a house which isn't yours ? and how do you protect your ownership of said house whilst being fair to person paying the joint bills?

Wages/TCs/CB go into our personal bank accounts.

We each put over a certain amount into a join account every month to cover rent, bills and childcare.

We are each left the same amount of "spending money" in our own accounts.

For example, if DP earns £1000 a month and I get £150 in CB/TCs, and our bills come to £950 a month - I put £50 into the joint account and DP puts £900 in, so we each have £100 spending money.

It's all a matter of trust. If you're going to have a good, loving relationship with someone that feels fair and equal you should be able to trust that your partner won't screw you over wrt money. If you do feel like that then you have to wonder why - is it because they have shown themselves not to be trustworthy in the past? Or because they indicate that they don't see you as equal? Or because you have your own issues that you need to work on before embarking on another relationship?

For example with the mortgage question Toothbrush - there's no one answer. But whatever is decided it should be fair to both partners. I would say in most cases if you have a house and move someone else they should pay "rent" at the beginning - a contribution to the mortgage (perhaps not half, depending on wages etc) and when it's clear living together is going to be longterm then legal steps should be taken to include the new person on the mortgage so that their contribution is recognised in the event of a split. Of course, if you marry, all that becomes automatic anyway.

You should be able to hand all your money over to your partner and trust that they will look after it, and you, fairly and kindly. In reality most couples just share money fairly. If one person tries to gain total control, or expects more than a fair contribution from the other then warning bells are ringing. Unfairness in money indicates a lack of respect and true partnership in a relationship IMO.

I earn rather more than DH, and he had always been useless with money. We have not got a joint account and all the bills, mortgage, etc are in my name and paid by me. Dh has contributed some money but the split has been 90:10 as he lurched from one crisis to another. Foolishly I have bailed him out on numerous occasions over the four years that we have been married, because I was stupid enough to believe that he was trying to sort things out.

He has just told me that the marriage is over. I am now screwed.

Broadly speaking: you should have a joint but proportionate responsibility for bills/rent/food/DCs needs (ie if one partner earns 3x what the other earns, that partner should be paying 75% of the household costs.) And an agreed equal sum each for personal spending, and that's not to include buying DC clothes/shoes/music lessons out of the lower income partner's share.

If one partner is SAHP with no actual income, then it needs to be understood that the SAHP is an equal partner in the family, and that the family income should be divided so that both partners have the same amount as personal spending and that DC's clothes/shoes/.school dinners come out of the family money.

We have a bills account that we each pay a certain amount into each month, dp pays in more as he earns more. This account is used to cover all household bills, food, furniture, appliances and clothes for dd's. We also have a holiday savings account which the spare bills account money goes into each month.

I have my own current, savings and ISA accounts. Dp is rubbish with money and only has a current account. I own a house which I'd bought before I met dp I pay the mortgage and anything else for that so dp has no claim on it if we were ever to split up.

I would never ever have a joint account as I am far too cynical and always think in terms of worse case scenarios. I would never put myself into a position where I could end up having to stay with someone purely because I was financially reliant on them.

Well me and dh have two joint accounts. Everything gets paid into the household one and all food, bills, stuff for dc's come out of that one. We have a set amount for spending that we worked out and we transfer this to the spending account and both dh and I mentally split this between us and aim to spend half each. It works well for us. This spending money is also used for days out etc. We also have a joint savings account we transer a fixed amount to each month. All banking is done online and we both have full access to the accounts.
I do know how you feel as I was a single parent for 8 years and I enjoyed having control of my money but the key is to finding a partner with a similar view to money as you and then you can make it work.

My ex husband was a nightmare and we had a joint account but no matter how many times I set a budget he'd just spend spend spend. The final straw came when game rang up while he was at work saying a special edition game hed oredered was in and I asked how much it was.. They said £200!!!!!! Our spending money then was supposed to be £20 a week!! I was livid. We also disagreed over food budgets - he would have livedon value pasta and tomato sauce rather than have better food and less spending money... So its those kind of things that can cause aggro.

Me and dh never argue about money. We like the same food, same attitudes to spending etc. We also have an unspoken rule that anything over about £40 is talked about before its brought (mainly just to stop us both doing it and going overdrawn!)

I owned the house with my mum when I met dh and my mum moved out and we took out a mortgage to pay my mum her Half. I am now a sahm and dh is effectively buying his half of the house through paying the mortgage. If we did ever split up I will be entitled to half the house which is what I would have been anyway as the other half was owned by my mum.

If one partner is SAHP with no actual income, then it needs to be understood that the SAHP is an equal partner in the family, and that the family income should be divided so that both partners have the same amount as personal spending and that DC's clothes/shoes/.school dinners come out of the family money.

Pretty much that. But it applies just the same if one is not a SAHP but just earns less.

I'm afraid the answer to "how do you prevent financial abuse" is "don't get together with someone who is likely to do that sort of thing". Difficult to predict, I know.

We have totally joint accounts where all the money goes and bills are paid

We then do what we will with the rest. If its a lot of money we always check the account and let the other person know and we always discuss big things. At the minute after bills we save 200 a month in a joint saving account and overpay 100 off the mortgage, the rest is available to whoever needs anything x

We have totally joint accounts - one current and a few savings.

I don't get annoyed when DH spends money and DH doesn't get annoyed if I spend money.

We have a budget and we tend to stick to it - no debt because if we can't afford something we don't buy it.

I'm more on the ball with checking how much money we have so DH will ask me if we have enough money for X at the moment but he's not asking me for permission more just to check we won't go into the overdraft.

It works for us - I trust him completely to make good financial decisions and vice versa.

What trills said.

My x didn't believe this clearly and didn't act like he believed it. Every sacrifice for parenthood had to be mine it seemed. My career, my pocket, my graft raising the kids and catering to his needs. And yet he seemed to believe I should be grateful to him. No joint b/A. He could treat himself to whatever he decided to really and I was literally wondering if I could afford coffee with a friend the next day or would I make an excuse. When I challenged him he was so defensive about it and said that he worked hard and deserved a treat (I deserved to be humiliated and poor and grateful I guess).

And............... this guy said to my mum the other day that he can't understand why I left him.

@ trills, looking back,,, one of the first signs my x was going to be financiall abusive was that when we first met he talked me out of going ahead with buying a one bed flat. He saw it as me not being interested in him, and stupidly I didn't go ahead with it. regret that. I guess I knew he was MEAN but I couldn't face up to it. I knew it but I tried to ignore it when I myself had a job and didn't NEED his generosity. But there came a time when I was a sahm with two kids and all I needed was common decency and that wasn't there either. I feel like I did know though, on one level. I knew, but I thought I could reason with him

sorry, I'm still typing, the reason the flat is relevant is because he then refused to get a mortgage with me sayign he could borrow more on his own. true maybe, but still. so, I ended up living hin HIS house, he could never afford anything because of the mortgage repayments (apparently) so I paid for groceries and council tax. I KNEW KNEW KNEW I WAS STUFFED.

And now that i've left him he is resolutely determined not to pay maintenance. If any of you are in the start of a relationship with a man and you even suspect a sniff of this, run for the hills screaming.

DP and I are buying a house together. My DC will live with us much of the time, his DD only for half of school holidays (in theory, if his ex co-operates). We expect to move next week. We have had a joint account for the last three months, both our salaries go in there plus my child benefit and child support from my DC's father. All money is 'ours', we discuss significant purchases (there have been a lot recently due to house purchase) and when we are in our new home (we don't live together now) we are going to review our finances, decide how much we can save each month and what else we need to buy, and when.

I do not expect there to be any financial issues since we have agreed how this can work for us. We are, I know, extremely fortunate that we can meet all our obligations and still have some left to save. We are taking out a huge mortgage and due to being in our 40s have a mortgage term that runs until DP is 70, so we need to make extra payments to get it repaid sooner.

We have separate current accounts, but joint savings. I have a spreadsheet on the computer with all our monthly outgoings on it, which I divide between us so that we have the same amount of money left over after bills and mortgage are paid. I tend to plan a couple of months in advance so we can plan for holidays, moving house etc. We also agree an amount to put in savings each month.

This works better for us than having a joint account as we have control over our own spending (we'd end up overdrawn if we shared an account I'm sure!) but the principal is the same that all money is joint (I earn double what dh does), we just divide it out equally rather than leaving it in a joint pot. We're starting to consider more and more joint now (glasses, passports etc) so that is taken out before we split the rest.

M

I am in a financially abusive relationship. Won't post the details here but if you're interested I dragged up my old topic on the subject:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1478534-Is-this-financial-abuse-What-to-do-LONG

In hindsight I think I was very wise to insist on keeping our finances separate, God only knows what situation I'd be in if we had a joint account. In an ideal world we'd have a joint account for bills and our own for little treats for us individually. But until I'm out of debt (not likely any time soon) that won't happen.

So yes, I'm still in debt and he still has plenty of money. I saw his statement for his current account the other day - he has more in there than I owe in debt . No idea how much he has in his savings account.

Financial abuse can be as crippling as emotional abuse is.

Finances in a committed relationship should always be open, honest and fair. Our finances are fairly separate but on a loose basis. In a marriage there is no my and your money. Having said that we are about to switch to my wife being SAHM, so will have to change.

Trills I'm afraid the answer to "how do you prevent financial abuse" is "don't get together with someone who is likely to do that sort of thing". Difficult to predict, I know.

This is such a grey area. Lots of people post about their inability to manage money and their debt. Are they abusive when they are in a relationship, or just 'not good with money'. The other person usually suffers a consequence of a partner's mismanagement if monies are joint.

I see lots of posts from relationships where there is tension over a SAHP decision with one parent feeling they have the right to become one and another fearing the financial effect. Who is right? You may discuss these things, but we are all capable of change and after childbirth, even more so! Is either parent abusive for having a pov which conflicts with the other? You cannot both win.

I was in a finacially abusive relationship. I value my financial independance highly. Doubt that stance will ever change and will not reflect on a current partner.

So the whole marriage = joint would never work for me.