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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Contact between exH and dc

26 replies

bonnieslilsister · 13/08/2012 23:00

My story is so complicated, I don't know where to start. It is 4 yrs since me and exH separated. He was/is extremely emotionally abusive and had rages

temper tantrums He has not paid a penny in maintainance and doesnt need to work because he inherited money, although not much left now, I think.

He was very negligent with the children and did some very horrible things and they don't trust him at all. They are in their teens now and don't see him very much despite him living really, really close.

We had mediation before our divorce and in the agreement it was stated he would email me dates when he would take them away to friends etc and the mediators agreed that at the end of the day it would be up to the children if they went or not because of their age. He was also to have contact twice a week which he very rarely turned up for.

I have never looked back since separating. I have become a foster carer and we all love this and our experiences have made us, as a family, I think, more emotionally aware and understanding.

Ex phoned me tonight to say he wanted to go back to mediation to get more contact. He feels dc dont make any effort to see him. They both refused to go away with him this weekend and last weekend. He probably thinks I am telling them not to go but I am not. I dont need to because they are so wary of him. He just cant see this.

When they have been away with him before he has done things they will never forget but he just cant see that. They have not been away with him now for 3 years. The last time he did things like confiscate their phones, lock dd in the toilet, flick dd constantly with tea towel hurting her and hold ds over a very deep and cold bath, threatening him with immersion. Ds has had professional help to help him deal with this.

When we had mediation I told the mediators all of this and said I wasn't prepared to 'force' them to have any contact, as he wanted me to, and they agreed they were old enough, even then, to decide.

I know exH has had counselling and he has done things like become vegan and has dabbled with yoga, meditation and such like but he obviously hasnt changed much as he was really nasty with me on the phone tonight.

I have no idea what to do. Can I be forced to have mediation again? It does say in our agreement we will seek mediation in the future if we have problems with contact. I did tell him mediation wouldn't do any good as it is not me stopping the children going they just dont want to.

Just when life seemed to be rosy again!

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 13/08/2012 23:04

I am not totally certain, but fairly sure that as your children are teens, any court would listen to, and be led, by what the children want to do.

LineRunner · 13/08/2012 23:05

Now that the DCs are teenagers it is really up to them what they want, so any mediation you had over contact could and would be vetoed by the DCs anyway, by the sounds of it.

BlackberryIce · 13/08/2012 23:05

I would just ignore him, and no, not go to mediation again

How old are the teens? Late teens?

Bossybritches22 · 13/08/2012 23:08

Yep tell him to take it to court if he wants. Any judge will ask for reports from the kids or to talk to them& his solicitor will tell him that if he has any sense.

Your poor kids have been through enough & reports/ details from your DS counsellors will back this up.

Original poster
bonnieslilsister · 13/08/2012 23:09

No Blackberry, one is early and other mid teens.

I don't know if I can be forced to go back for mediation. He spoke tonight of ringing his lawyer tomorrow. He was being his usual self and ordering me to go.

OP posts:
Original poster
bonnieslilsister · 13/08/2012 23:11

I don't know why, this is really upsetting me. I feel worse now than I did at the thought of mediation last time....then it was a positive thing as we were working towards something

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 13/08/2012 23:12

no point you and him mediating. dc old enough now to decide.

you could get the dc back to psychologist/therapist and/or facilitate some DC and ex family based therapy - but for what purpose? if they need their choice validating then maybe...

my exp also pushing contact. awaiting therapy/counselling for dc. i strongly feel they get a say given past experiences with ex. eg dd (10) v anxious after exp sent texts saying he "wll pick them up from summer camp" - i have said no and had to reassure dd he cant just go and pick them up on his say so (i have residence and pr, only limited contact in past 2 years ) .

i know how it is tho with someone insisting you are speaking for dc when you are only expressing what their wishes are.

and they dont get that their behaviours have caused dc to feel negative...

cestlavielife · 13/08/2012 23:15

if he takes you to court you cant be forced to mediation i dont think unless you trying to claim legal aid.

Original poster
bonnieslilsister · 13/08/2012 23:18

I told him I wouldn't consider paying for mediation. But I dont know as it was in the agreement whether I now have to go.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 13/08/2012 23:20

I think you need to write him an email. There's no proof of anything that's said on the phone and you really need proof.

"Dear XH

Please don't telephone me in future. We are now divorced and I no longer have to put up with your anger.

You are right to say that you don't see the children often. You seem to think this is because I have poisoned them against you. I have spoken to the children frequently over the last few years and this is what they have said with regard to your visits.

a) they are not regular and seem to be at your convenience

b) you have got very angry with them when they have been alone with you and this has frightened them. Examples are:

  • you held DS over a freezing bath, threatening to immerse him. He needed professional help to recover from this abusive treatment
  • you locked DD in the bathroom. Do you really think this is behaviour which is going to make her want to see you alone?
  • on X occasion (name where they were) you flicked her constantly with a tea towel, hurting her. Again, why would she want to be in that position with you again?

c) you do not make the effort to do what they like to do (insider information here.) You want them to do whatever you want to do. This is selfish behaviour which, again, has led them to not want to go out with you on their own.

I am happy for this to go to court. The mediator and the judge did stipulate the children should choose when to see you. I am not happy to pay for mediation again. However, if you want to pay for it, I will be happy to return to re-state my case. Be aware, though, that there are several more examples than this that the mediator or the court will be given.

You don't seem to understand that the children love you. You are their father but you don't seem to care about them. They have stated this frequently and have been very, very upset about it.

I think that you need to make a lot of effort now to make sure they know that you love them and that you have their best interests at heart. They have been frightened of you and you should make sure that never happens again. Only when they feel they can trust you, will they feel safe enough to spend the night away with you.

I reiterate - please reply by email, not by phone.

XW"

BlackberryIce · 13/08/2012 23:21

The only thing that can 'force' you to do anything is a court order. Solicitors agreements are not enforceable

Original poster
bonnieslilsister · 13/08/2012 23:27

That is what I wanted to know, thank you Blackberryice

and thanks Imperial I will definately use something like that email and send it tonight so he can get it before he speaks to his lawyer and spends another few hundred pounds

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 13/08/2012 23:28

i dont think there is any point you asking him what he thinks or telling him how he should behave. if he doesn't get it he doesnt get it. and he will always justify or minimize what he has done. if anything like my ex.....

Original poster
bonnieslilsister · 13/08/2012 23:38

So true cest he sounds very similar to yours. I hate the idea he can come and disturb us like that after 4 yrs practically of peace. I think Imperial is right I should insist on email rather than phone.

OP posts:
Rowanhart · 13/08/2012 23:46

Excellent post imperial. Good luck OP.

cestlavielife · 13/08/2012 23:57

just stick to the facts. dont tell him what he may be thinking . you cant know.

but even then with the facts he may just come back and blame you.

eg i have said to ex "there have been incidents which mean they dont trust you" to which he says "that is your fault for making a big thing out of what happened" etc.

just say that if he wants to pay for mediation you will go and explain again what has happened and why the dc dont want to go.

Original poster
bonnieslilsister · 14/08/2012 00:00

cest are we married to the same person!! That is exactly what he says and thinks. He doesnt give them any credit for thinking for themselves.

I really appreciate everyone posting

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 14/08/2012 00:01

Thanks Rowanhart - I know this man (the OP is my sister) and can't bear him. I'd rather bury a hatchet in his head, personally, but think maybe an email will have to do instead!

ChasedByBees · 14/08/2012 00:14

He sounds terrible, who does that to their children?!

solidgoldbrass · 14/08/2012 01:41

He can't make any of you do anything, they are too old to be forced to see him against their, and your, wishes. Send him an email stating that the DC don't want to see him because of his past behaviour, that he is only to contact you via email, and if he wants to waste his money on solicitors that's up to him.
You do not have to obey this man, or listen to abuse from him.

Bossybritches22 · 14/08/2012 10:15

Imperial Spot on post.

Bonnie this is not just about him wanting to see the kids. He is one of those controlling men who gets narky as the Ex starts putting her foot down & standing up to him,and moving on & away from him. The kids are also getting beyong his control in that they can make their own choices. He is losing control of you all & he is kicking back.

Try not to let it worry you (easier said I know) but keep your distance & let him do all the running & keep contact to a minimum. That way you will have the double satisfaction of calling the shots AND pissing him off Grin

Stay strong!

ImperialBlether · 14/08/2012 10:20

He last had them overnight three years ago and hasn't mentioned it since - I think he was just in a bad mood and started thinking about his sad life and who else to blame but the OP? Couldn't possibly be his fault.

Original poster
bonnieslilsister · 14/08/2012 14:31

I have emailed him last night and have had no reply.

I think yesterday I just panicked at the thought of lawyers again. Also, thinking I would have to sit through the mediation again sent me crazy.

Thank you so much everyone

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 14/08/2012 15:15

But you know in the last mediation everyone was on your side, even if they were meant to be impartial! And what can the lawyers do? He does see the children, doesn't he? Sometimes, anyway. It's just they don't want to spend time away from home with him. If they spoke in court, nobody would make them go. Not that it would come to that - his solicitors would tell him to back off.

LineRunner · 14/08/2012 15:27

You don't have to go back to mediation, OP. You tried it - it failed.

Your DCs are old enough to 'vote with their feet' and your ExH's lawyer will certainly tell him that.

If your ExH applies to the court for a contact order, your DCs can write their own letters to the judge outlining what they want. You don't even need to waste your own money on a lawyer. You just respond in time, politely, and say, 'Dear Judge, please speak to the DCs about their wants and needs, given that X, Y and Z happened; and given their ages.'

In the end, my ExH's barrister was the best thing that happened to me - the guy talked some cold, hard sense into my Ex where no-one else had managed to. The resulting contact order (which Ex immediately failed to honour, because he didn't really want the contact) also contained a clause about him (the Ex) not coming to my home - which his own barrister agreed to!