I need to keep a record

[bobbinogs]

of what's going on in my relationship. So I can look back and learn, so things can change, so I have something meaningful to think about when I'm an emotional wreck like I am today.

We're marred 3 yrs, together 10, Ds6 and Dd3.

Today I'm at home with the kids, snapping and on the verge of tears, imagining leaving and what that would mean for everyone, questioning my perception of everything, feeling hopeless and hopeful in turn......

Dh is often angry and that anger is directed at me. It's low level tetchiness and exasperation, he snaps and criticises, rolls his eyes and sighs, avoids eye contact and mumbles. It sounds silly compared to so many people's horrific experiences but god it's draining and damages our relationships........I find myself second guessing what the next problem is going to be, feeling nervous, and feeling enormous resentment and anger myself.

The night before last he was at work all day and evening. I was looking after the children, one recovering from chicken pox and one going down with it. They finally went off and I went to bed for some peace 10 minutes before he got home. He came upstairs and we chatted and he asked if I'd like to have sex and I said No, not now as I'm tired and drained. During the night Dd was up scratching, in the morning Ds was shouting for Dh to come and help him put the Tv on. Dh stayed in bed, he said he was tired as he'd stayed up late watching tv. He was not due to go into work and at about 8.45 he was still in bed and I said I'n going to go for a run. He was annoyed ' You don't have to go now'Dh eventually got up and started shouting at Ds about being on his Nintendo, I picked up the kettle and he shouted 'I'm in the middle of making a cup' and tried to elbow me out of the way. Up to this point I'd been quiet but now I was quite assertive and said No, don't behave like this just because you're tired. He slunk off after making a dig about me talking to him like that in front of the children.

So follows a day of tetchiness and little digs and atmosphere and me feeling increasingly stressed. At night I cried and talked, this always happens, I say you take your moods out on me, it's not fair, it's damaging, it's stressful, he says I know, I'm sorry, I'll try harder.........and so it goes, a few weeks later, a stressful or tired time and we're back at the same place. What was a bit worse yesterday was when I said it felt like he was angry because I didn't want to have sex, his response was telling, he didn't say no of course not but he knew it was out of order to say yes I was......

I told him if I start feeling I can't say no to sex or you'll be shouting we may as well divorce now, I'm not prepared to live like that.

This sounds mild but it's a continual thread of upset and sadness in my life. I need to keep track of what happens and how I react so I can make good decisions and protect myself. I'm not a pushover, I'm not an angel, I'm sure I can be annoying and difficult.........but there is something fundamental to do with his anger and anxiety and how he manages these by lashing out at me, or blaming me that really needs to be addressed. I want the best possible life for our family and for me.

I'm going to use this space as a way of recording events and thoughts and ideas good and bad to make that best possible happen.......I'm not going to be making any sudden decisions.......but our relationship needs attention and this will help me think about it....

If you have similar experiences or advice and want to share I don't have anyone to talk to about these things in real life........

Has your relationship with him always been like this, or can you pinpoint when it changed to this?

It sounds horrible, to live with that constant atmosphere. It's no good for you and no good for your children either. I guess the question is, is it salvagable or is this his personality?

Thanks for replying.......I guess it's always been a bit like this....the thing is when we first got together he was in quite a crap situation in his life so it was kind of excused by that.....eventually he went on ADs for depression and anxiety and there was a massive change.......so generally now it's excused by that, the anxiety and depression......we had a massive bust up a couple of months ago when things had been bad for a while and I found out he'd stopped taking the ADs and it was really affecting his behaviour. But I'm 99% sure he's on the Ad's and will stay on them now.

So it's like he learnt to behave like this when he's been suffering from anxiety and depression but he there's still a trace of the behaviour when the anxiety and depression are managed. Does that mean it's his personality? I don't know.

We can be good together, know each other well, work well together, parent well together, but maybe patterns have been laid down when he was Ill that persist and I want to do things differently now. in which case the question is how to do things differently. Sometimes I wonder how I play a part in enabling the behaviour, and then I begin to feel confused

Is he snappy at other people - friends, work colleagues, family? Or is it just you?

Anxiety/depression could explain things, however, it could just be a well worn excuse.

Does he recognise that there is a problem, and if he does, what action does he think he or both of you could take to improve things? Would he consider counselling? It sounds like it might be useful to have a 'safe environment' where you can air the things that are troubling you, and be guided by a counsellor to open up with each other and explore solutions.

If he won't consider that, then you are left with deciding whether you can put up with this for months/years. Young children are often a strain on a relationship, however, it sounds like this started well before your children arrived.

Have you read any of the info at the top of the Emotional abuse thread? Might ring some bells.

Here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1514011-Support-for-those-in-Emotionally-abusive-relationships-number-10

I found I could tell when my ex had missed his ADs, even if he was about three days overdue. He would be happy on them and think he didn't need them (he didn't like having to take them) and then of course his mood would drop and he'd be angry about needing to take them. He always denied it all and it was very hard living with him.

Do you think a change in ADs (if he is indeed taking them) would help?

Oh it's definitely just me, he's Mr easy going and genial to the rest of the world...that's something I always point out to him when I'm pointing out how his behaviour is unacceptable.......and he's generally very patient with the children, more so than me but then he doesn't have the stress of living with him to cope with! Although of course having children is stressful I'd say actually our relationship is stronger because of them, he's devoted and wants them to grow up in a happy family

No it's all directed at me and I would say when he's in a mood he feels real anger and resentment towards me......unjustified....I can feel it oozing out of him...

Yes he knows there's a problem, he is contrite today, texting to say sorry and he loves me.

After every situation like last night where I break down and he finally stops being angry he says we can sort it, I'll try harder.......but the truth is he isn't able to stop it, if it was a matter of just deciding not to do it he would but managing emotions isn't like that is it......I mentioned counselling this morning and he said we don't need that, I suggested there may come a point where it's that or you leave....he had no answer for that......

It's this endless cycle of escalating intermittent angry behaviour which I ignore and manage for days or weeks until something tips me over and I break down, followed by a day maybe of silence and resentment and me feeling beaten down and exhausted and desperate and then the ' I know there's a problem, I'll try harder bla bla.....' it's draining.....

I wish I could stop the cycle and say or do something to make him realise what he's doing at the point it's happening rather than when I've gone through all that stress......I'm worried that it's going to take me leaving or having a breakdown to make him realise 'I'll try harder' isn't enough....

I'm always reading the emotional abuse stuff, I don't want to admit it's happening to me, I don't want to think of my Dh like that, I've started crying again.....

All I can say is that if I felt real anger and resentment towards me oozing out of someone, I wouldn't want to be near them. It would make me feel really awful.

Do you think this can be managed or do you think it will always be like this?

Well, the fact that he can control it with other people, that he is "Mr easy going and genial to the rest of the world" speaks volumes. It means he CAN control his actions. It means he sees you as his emotional punchbag. That is abuse.

He knows it upsets and distresses you. He must realise that his children will be affected by it. But he continues.

I think you should lay it on the line to him. Get help, sort it, within whatever time frame YOU see fit, or else he goes. If you don't, you will still be living with this in another 5, 10 or 20 years.

People always say that about being able to choose. But I used to hold everything together at work even though depressed and then come home and feel that my partner should listen to how I really felt and help me process and talk it through. He didn't though. He was EA himself, and we are now divorced.

The reason I was depressed was partly work (I ended up going sick and then leaving) - and mostly Ex

First port of call, his GP. His AD's may have stopped working at their most effective. Couples counselling may or may not be advisable, but counselling for him on his own may be some help.

It is wearing living with someone who brings you down with their moods and makes your life difficult. When you compare it with physical violence or adultery you tend to down-play it, but the end result is the same - you lose your vitality, your self-esteem and your happiness while spending all your energy on someone who doesn't appreciate or deserve your love.

I'm 2 months out of an EA relationship, I refer to it as low-level abuse because like you, I couldn't quite decide if it was bad enough to leave. But believe me, the weight has been lifted, I now feel lighter, happier and less stressed, despite running a home on my own, upping my working hours to bring in more money and dealing with the emotional fall-out for myself and the children (in fairness, they are all fine with it already - its only me struggling with the idea of losing my future, that the father of my children didn't love me enough to be kind.)

I'm going out with a lovely (male) friend tonight and maybe one day I will even meet a man with whom I can share more than a drink and a chat, but even on my own I will be happier than I was with stbxh. I hope you see the light and do whatever it takes to make yourself happy - you will NEVER be able to make him happy - only he has the power to do that.

x

Imperial- yes it does make me feel really awful, which begs the question why do I just let it keep happening?

Silver- I honestly don't think he's depressed though maybe his ADs aren't as effective as they were. But even if he is he's not coming home wanting to process his feelings, I'd be happy to talk, he's coming home wanting to moan and criticise and belittle me.........and depression or not that's not on

I'm glad I posted, it seems more real now, I feel more vindicated, it's not just a horrible scary mush in my head. When someone mentioned EA my first reaction was to burst into tears but I don't disagree, though I find it hard to equate the label with the DH who the rest of the time is ok.

And it'll be the ok DH who will be home soon, being conciliatory and caring, getting a curry in and saying it's all ok now.......and we'll probably have a nice time for a while, a good holiday, but I know I'll be back here.....

And this thread is the first post in me stepping out of the cycle, with or without him I do not want this for the next 20 years.......I've got lots of thoughts and lots of questions....I've been playing ball in an isolated field with my pox ridden children ( far away from all other children!) all afternoon and thinking........I grew up in a dysfunctional family, both my parents next relationships are odd, I had very low self esteem when I was younger, I had what I know realise was a seriously abusive relationship in my 20s.....and yet it all seems minimised and glossed over......and I thought DH was safe......and I thought it was my fault....and I tried to help and make him better......and although it's not all bad I kind of think it's not normal....but I don't really know because I don't really know what's normal.....

Sorry I didn't make it clear enough that I totally agree this is EA bobbinogs. I just think that this issue of it being a choice is slightly off the mark. Ex and I had variations of the same row many many times, the script seemed to run semi-automatically on both our parts, I was kind of seeing myself say things, while knowing they were the 'wrong' thing to say, and being able to predict Ex's come-back, to boot.

He would always turn the blame back on me. Me 'you've peed on the toilet seat again, I had to wipe sprinkles, can't you lift the seat?' Him: 'I've had to wipe your sprinkles off' - which is hardly relevant given our physiologies.

But as they say with EA relationships, if it was all bad, you wouldn't stay. They give you just enough 'nice' to keep you hopeful (well, if you're lucky, mine was a bit lacking!) but not enough to make you happy.

I'm not saying 'leave the bastard' but rather 'if you leave him you will be ok and possibly even great!'

What helped you make the decision Doingitformyself? I'm glad you're feeling good, I hope you go from strength to strength...

I'd imagine from his perspective though that being out at work all day and evening, and coming home to find you'd gone to bed and shut yourself off from him socially ( but of course I don't know what time it was, it could have been 11pm! and of course I am not suggesting you should have had sex! ) could feel like a bit of a rejection.

The next morning you woke him up by saying "I am going for a run" which basically translates as "Get up. Now." You say he was annoyed and said "You don't have to go now." I'd have been annoyed too. I think you were being passive-aggressive, as you could have gone any time but the time you choose to go was at a time that would inconvenience him.

I don't blame you for either of those things, BTW, I would probably do them myself. However those two things in your OP leapt out at me as examples of you behaving resentfully, and critically, which is what you accuse him of doing all the time . . . I don't think this is one-sided, sorry.

Balloon yes I go through times of feeling very angry and resentful and that does fuel the cycle I'm sure. I know he felt rejected about the sex and consequently stayed up late stewing and then refused to get up with the kids in the morning. I told him I wanted to go for a run at 9, not the crack of dawn, he was still fuming in bed.....and then he proceeded to get up and start shouting.

Sex is a problem, not as big a problem as it was when the children were younger but I do find it hard when I feel the intimacy and emotional connection aren't there, and when I'm feeling angry and resentful myself....despite that we do have sex a couple of times a week so it's not like he's permanently rejected

Whatever the scenario the script will be the same though......unjustified (in my opinion) outbursts, lots of moaning and criticisms, sighing and eye rolling, much of which I will ignore or jolly along or try and sort out......then I'll break over some incident, I call him on it, he'll say I'm over reacting, over sensitive, making a fuss, disturbing the children, I'll get upset....at some point he'll sit with me sullenly refuse to engage, look straight ahead or even close his eyes, fold his arms, monosyllabic, sarcastic......I'll get more and more upset...then at some point I'll get angry and calm and say look this is so unacceptable and they'll be some kind of resolution where he says I know you're right, I'll try harder bla bla bla......I'll feel shaky and low for a day or so then we'll all go back to normal....we are at the getting back to normal stage now......

Use this stage to think, and to look after you.