partner ignores agreements

[stemginger]

Oh and I disgree over some things (mainly to do with children - bed times, diet etc but also house work etc). He is always happy to discuss, we come to various agreements etc (compromises). He then keeps up his side for a day or two and then it is back to normal. When challenged he either loses it (shouts) or denies ever having made the agreement in the first place. This seems to leave me with no where to go - is this normal?

Not sure. What is the process of 'coming to an agreement' like? Does he actually discuss, engage, make his own point, or is he agreeing without really discussing it so that he never actually signs up?

Maybe try writing it down, so you have proof when he declares no knowledge then he has to face up to it a little more......difficult though as this kind of thing is tiring when you feel you are constantly pushing for compromise

he discusses etc - an example is bed times - the school said that our youngest two were tired at school (6 and 10 - going to bed at 9.30 ish - sometimes later on school nights) so we discuss and he agrees that they need more sleep etc and I agree to do stories etc each night (he is always "about to do it" but it gets put off etc so gets late, so I agree to take over as he says he has no time etc - ie it is give and take) but he always wants to play with them first (he obviously wants to spend quality time with them). So we agree that he must finish playing with them by 7.30 so I can get them to bed earlier. Only he doesn't - he now delays playing with them until later and later so I can't get them to bed. The same goes for food (he forgets that we agreed that they should only one food based treat a day) but we discuss it (I wanted treats on Fridays, he wanted them continually so one a day seemed a reasonable compromise). It isn't just once - it is every time we agree anything.

Does he work?
I am sure he does not "forget" his work agreements, schedule and plans so quickly.

To me this looks like he is deliberately undermining the plans you are making together, which means you are the only one compromising and he is just doing as he sees fit. Shouting is not nice and suggests he does not respect you, "forgetting" and telling you that you are remembering things wrong. This is gaslighting and is very very tiring to deal with.

How is his temper about other things?
How does he support you over other issues?
How equal do you feel your partnership is?

and no, this is not normal though it may be common.

God this sounds annoying. I would say that to him - that you're cheesed off with his word meaning nothing. I agree with fool, would he do that at work?

He's either trying to make such a mess of parenting that it ends up with you doing everything or he is enjoying fucking the whole household around to demonstrate that He Is The Man.
Either way I would be contemplating getting rid of him. Particularly over the delaying at bedtime, this is making the DC suffer to prove that he is the only person who matters.

you are right about work - he does not forget work agreements. He gives in a lot to the children and does seem to use "forgettign" as an excuse for not doing house work. Not so easy to just get rid of him though as he is teh childrens father. I don't think that it is a power thing - more a learned behaviour to get his own way I guess - he also does the "helpless" thing (ie is unable to work the dish washer etc). I just find it hard to know where to go with it.

When you've had a discussion, reached an agreement, write it down immediately and you both sign it. Then you can wave a piece of paper in his face and he can't deny anything. If he leaves playing until too late then they go to bed at the time agreed and he misses his quality time.

Mind you, it's quite a pain, and I'm not sure it's worth it. Does he do this with everything?

I'm not sure about the writing stuff down and signing it thing. That is again leaving you chasing him, i.e. trying to get him to sign things. I think the agreements need to end up with you being quite clear about what you are going to do - following the discussion about school issues, you are going to put the children to bed starting 7.30, come hell or high water. What he does about playing with them is entirely up to him. You don't need to shout, plead, cajole, remind or reopen the discussion - it's 7.30 and you start bedtime. Let him do the worrying about his behaviour tbh.

Well, the received wisdom is to set strong, consistent and reasonable boundaries and to call him on his behaviour each and every time that he oversteps, "forgets" or otherwise undermines the decisions you have made together. Think "toddler taming" for the grown man

this is exhausting.

The result will be either that he steps up to the mark (eventually) and starts to take responsibility for his own behaviour...a "normal" loving and supportive response. Someone whose problems run a bit deeper may start to misbehave in other ways and you may need to call his behaviour and seek support from elsewhere.

the rules of the game are

1. Do not accept anything less than joint responsibility and joint parenting
2. Call him on each and every infringement of what you have decided together
3. divide duties appropriately and stick to them, "I don't know how" is pathetic but if he can't stack the DW and turn it on then he gets to wash the pots..... (or whatever).
4. agree never to "play" the children off against one another...no good cop bad cop....

I'm sure you get the gist.

I would just get the kids ready for bath/bed when you want too....and if he hasnt played with them that night then im afraid its tough.
My kids at that age were in bed by 7.30 on a school night...they needed their sleep.

I know I am now going to get flamed for suggesting you (OP) police your DH.

My suggestion is real because I think otherwise you will just go round in circles. My gut may be wrong but I think that the approach above may show you a lot about your DH.

of course if he does not appreciate this approach you are going to get called a "nag" to which the appropriate response is "I won't nag if you keep to what we've decided". If his behaviour is poor then you may need to return to the forum.......................................

Sorry - the 6 yr old would be in bed by 7.30...my 10 year old ds is in bed by 9 on a school night.

I think your dc should be going to bed at different times anyway...6 and 10 is a big age gap.

Goodness, i go to bed at ten!!

Its not enough sleep, bed at 7 maybe 7.30 for oldest. ( don't you want rid of them :-) )

Agree the rules, write them down and stick them on the wall.

I do think this is about control. He is managing to throw his weight around and rule the house by his 'fun Dad' and 'helpness man' routine. It is a passive aggressive way of marking his territory.

Do not be fooled thrown by his tricks. I would employ the strategies suggested above with zero tolerance. He needs to realise you have the measure of him and that he needs to stop acting up and behave like an adult.

It sounds easy reading it here [grins] the problem is that he will play th ekids off against me - lots of "mummy says we cannot play" and then the 10 year old gets pretty unbearable. How do you stop someone playing the kids off against you? I have been trying to call him on all infringements but then get accused of nagging.

Maybe he is passive aggressive - he doesn't sulk - (from wikipedia) but the rest fits well. His parents are identical (esp his father but his mother too).

Does anyone know of any good books on how to deal with passive aggression please?

Do you want to spend the rest of your life tiptoeing round this man's ego and training the children to do the same? He's quite determined to 'win' and have the rest of the family putting his whims and wishes above anything else.

I would seriously suggest arming yourself with the facts about what would happen if you separate: who owns the house, how much maintenance you could get, any benefits you might be eligible for, local childcare if you work, etc. It's always good to have this information if you have an unsatisfactory partner.
Then call him again on his bad behaviour and say you are seriously thinking about ending the relationship if he can't improve. Have a time limit in your head for him to improve his behaviour and learn to treat you with respect, and if there is no or very little improvement, get to work on putting him out of the house.

Don't nag, just don't take part. I just say 'Yep, it's horrible mummy time' and if the ds say 'whyyy are you so horrible mum' I just say 'It's my job. Teeth. Now'. Or to ring the changes, 'Daddy's nice, I'm nasty. That's how it is. Five minutes til the telly goes off'.

You can't be the hero all the time. If someone is manipulative, you don't have to consent to be manipulated. If you are clear what your bottom line is, fix your mind on that and don't be bothered by extraneous stuff. A certain amount of negotiation with the kids is to be expected - e.g. giving them a reasonable amount of warning before bedtime etc, giving way to let them watch one more heat of the swimming or whatever - but FGS if getting them to bed on time is important, then just don't be distracted by silly comments about nagging or silly kids' stuff. Get adult on his ass.

the problem is that you can't deal with this "nicely" he won't let you...you've tried.

The next step is to take control and see what happens.

You may find that his behaviour gets alot worse and he is revealed as an entitled selfish man-child...in which case you will know who he is (and you will find many people on MN who have experience of that!!).

Or you may find that he is a normal flawed human being who needed to be shown how to parent in a grown up way and who now does.

Either way you will have information and be able to make decisions about how you want your life to be.

The situation you are in can hardly be good for the DCs or you now, so something has to change