Advice needed for sister and her awful 12 year old

[StressyHead]

message withdrawn

message withdrawn

To say I was a difficult teenager might possibly be an understatement but I turned out pretty well in the end, my dad was always fairly/very lenient and open minded and I have to say I think that really helped and now I'm older I am really close to him too.

We had boundries but just not as many as other kids. My mum was always very strict but I think in the end she saw my dads way worked and just kept out of it.

I don't know what to suggest but have you tried talking to the dd as a friend?

My dad sat me down once when he found out I'd got into (soft-ish)drugs (about 14/15) and we talked liked mates - for the first time. I just remember walking away from the conversation thinking... my dad is WAY cool... and boasting to all my mates the next day.

I still think my dad is WAY cool (btw).

message withdrawn

You could always tell her... my dad did to me sometimes.

Oh and my friends lived miles away - one week my parents refused to give me a lift anywhere... I still went out, forked out for taxis, buses, got friend paretns to pick me up BUT I never took it for granted again - not that I ever told them.

Next time you get an opportunity like that to speak with her could you think of something that happened to you when you were that age - something she could relate to. Something a bit personal.

Maybe even 'when I was your age I was such a little cow - just like you!... but now I really regret how horrible I was to my mum' or 'you'd be sorry if your mum wasn't there anymore'

Well, I have one teenager atm and two boys who used to be teenagers. I don't really have anything constructive to add as we didn't encounter the problems your sis seems to have in a majorly way. I guess my main thing would be to keep the lines of communication open. Has your sis told your niece how the tantrums are making her feel? Sometimes they can be shocked that parents have feelings too! Your sis could try the Dr for help with dealing with this. They have links with all sorts of agencies who may be able to help. HTH

I think Salt is right in respect to making sure your sister's dd knows she can talk to someone whenever she wants to and that she will be listened to with love and respect (maybe you could offer to take her to one side and just say that to her, and leave it with her). However, I would also say that she needs to understand that personal abuse and shouting is not acceptable, and she will be ignored if she behaves like that, no arguments, just silence. I may sound a bit tough, but I have experience with this with my older sister. She was a shouty, angry teenager, accused my mother of working my father to death, said terrible things, refused to come home, etc, etc. A fragile peace was kept by the rest of the family tiptoeing around her for years, "Don't upset X" was the family mantra. She's nearly 40 now and she is still incredibly demanding and can say the most appalling things and accusations, and I can't help feeling that if she had been told that her behaviour was absolutely unnacceptable when she was 14, then we might not be in this situation now. I am not saying I was an angel, far from it, but after 25 years of being walked over and rarely having the spine to tackle her about it, I know how destructive that kind of thing can be in a family.

Sorry, posts crossed. Maybe next time she's truly awful, your sis could refuse to take her out or drop her at friends', might be a good wkae up, as salt says.

message withdrawn

My oldest is 12 in April, and unfortunately exactly the same atm . Her behaviour has resulted in her being grounded until February, so unless it is a family related thing, she's not allowed out. It feels like ww3 here some days. She hasn't started her periods yet, but I suppose it's the hormonal run up among other things.

a very good friend of mine has a 12 yr old daughter who is a complete cow on castors. she is rude, spoiled, inpolite, offensive and she openly swears at her step dad ( who feels helpless as friend hasnt really ever given him "permission" to discipline her) i was visiting one day and i think she was trying to show off in front of me when she told step dad to F*ck off. i was so angry i said in my sternest mum voice ( insert name here) who the hell do you think you are talking to you are a complete disgrace. - she blushed the brightest red and went to her room

i think i am the only person to have ever told this little girl off. children crave boundries - i actually feel sorry for her.

people underestimate discipline i think. too many children are given their way.

my 14 year old son asked to go to his mates yesterday at 9.30 am i said yes but please please promise me faithfully you will be back before its dark - he promised he would. he has pulled this trick once too often and am a bit fed up. he didnt turn up until 8pm. so this morning he asked for his usual £2 for school dinner - i said i would drop it in at school reception as i didnt have any change.

he came home and said " YOU didnt leave ME any money at reception"

i replied" its a pisser when people let you down isn't it?"

i know he can borrow money from the school office BTW but his pride will have taken a dent - he may even have looked stupid in front of his soo called mates.

sometimes its easier to ignore bad behaviour - sometimes its an accepted form of parenting - i personally think bad behaviour should be repremanded - as good behaviour should be rewarded.

maybe this 12 year old needs to do some voluntary work or something which makes her appreciate the family she has and the things she has and who does what in the family to afford her the litle luxuries.

values and discipline and respect are not victorian values

Actually, the swearing we don't get, she knows she would be dead if I caught her doing that.

I like your style re dinner money Custy!

I am strict with my dd. Have had more airy fairy friends say I am too strict, but they haven't had a demonic child of that age to deal with yet, their oldest has just started school, so I listen, say nothing, then tell them to p*ss off in my head.

I think it gets harder with older kids, wish they could all stay under 7.

Custy, I wish to god all of the kids in my dreadful year 11 group had parents like you. If they did they wouldn't be so dreadful! I agree with you that kids crave boundaries. They will push till they get one, and if it isn't at home then it will happen at school, or with the police.

In my classes I expect that people treat each other with respect, using words like, please and thank you. Some of these kids look at me as if I am mad, but they do behave. At least they do in the end Kids need to learn that there are rules, that, yes, they do have rights but with them come responsibilities.

Does anyone else think they have a different child at home, to the one at school? She's always well behaved there, it's only at home her head starts spinning.

My dreadful Y11 ds can be a little shit in both places...

Not all the time - sometimes he's nice in both places - but he doesn't differentiate. (His sisters used to be much "gooder" at school than at home.) I do discipline (withdraw privileges, criticise his bad behaviour, praise the good things, etc etc) but it doesn't seem to make any difference - it's just the way he is. ds2 is nothing like him, which is a relief in a way but points up how bloody difficult ds1 is.

Sorry, stressyhead, no help to you really but some kids just are horrible regardless of how they're "brought up". Can only hope they'll grow out of it.

stressyhead, my 12 yr old dd is just the same at the moment. Can't speak for your sister's dd, but I have a good idea about what is behind my dd's behaviour - apart from being v hormonal she is carrying around a lot of anger, hurt and confusion about several traumatic family events which have occurred over the last 5 or so years (her dad and i splitting up was the biggie). I think she's bottled it all up until the hormones kicked in a year or so ago and brought a lot of stuff to the surface. We are hoping to get her referred to a child psych/counsellor - I think she needs someone outside the family to talk to, and she seems fairly amenable to the idea.

Apart from that it's a classic case of pushing to find out where the boundaries are. Unfortunately she's had mixed messages - different rules at home and at dad's, then different rules again when granny (to whom she is very close) comes to stay. Recently her dad and I started talking to each other more and agreed that we have to back each other up and agree on setting the same rules in both homes (which is great), but since this has happened dd has got even worse. I think she's trying to test whether this new approach will really hold iykwim.

Anyway, sorry to hijack with ramblings about my dd - it sounds to me as if your sister's dd has some similar issues - perhaps she's carrying a burden of anger/confusion about the problems between sister and bil? Perhaps she needs someone to talk to?

Hope it all works out ok

Boundaries - couldn't agree more! My poor DS is year 10 and has always had firm discipline from me - strictest mum in the school I guess! At 14 going on 15, he has a lot more freedom but he knows exactly what the rules are and the consequences of not following them - if he is due back at a certain time and is late, he is grounded for a day for every minute he's late... And I mean GROUNDED - no phonecalls, no tv, no computer, no after school activities, no nothing. Oddly enuf, we don't need to use it often! He's always had jobs round the house, increasing as he gets older, he understands the allowance paid to his bank account is for his actions around the house, so he knows that this money will be cut / stopped if he doesn't feed his cat, take his turn to walk the dog, keep his room and his clothes in reasonable order etc etc. Oh we have our moments - I really lost my temper with him on Friday, get this. He "lost" his mobile AGAIN. Thats 3 in less than 3 years, but more annoying, when I asked how he managed to lose this one, he said "Dunno, it was in my pocket and then it wasn't" - ie, he left his coat lying around and someone nicked it. So he has to replace it himself - that was the threat last time he lost it, so he will have to dip into the money he was saving for something for his computer. He loses his watch regularly, so he has to replace that and we have to replace his coat at least once a year, as well as bits of his PE kit. He once lost his shoes... I went off like a firework that day! HOW do you lose shoes??? Anyway, that bloody annoying behaviour aside, he is a really nice kid - DS2 who is 6 weeks old has been a brute all day, but is now being entertained by DS1 - for the past couple of hours - so mum could get cleaned up and sit here relaxing. And all this without being asked! He is reading Kippers Snowy Day to him, whilst trying to watch room 101

This is of no use to anyone is it, but I have had a nice ramble!!! And maybe you can tell me whats the worst thing your children ever lost!

message withdrawn

stressyhead, your niece may not have been 'told' about the near breakup but I suspect she 'knows' a lot about it! I agree about all the boundaries stuff. good luck & merry christmas