Debt?

[Iheartginashoes]

Was wondering how much of an issue debt is in a relatively new relationship?

Been seeing a guy for 6 months, all going well, despite us both going through divorces (he further along than me)

He is a very honest person, speaks as he finds etc, and as a result of which it's become apparent that he is in quite a bit of debt (don't know exact figures ob but £20-£30k). Although he earns a good wage, he is constantly up to the limit on his overdraft, and kinda living hand to mouth come the middle of the month, as I said, despite being on a "good wage".

I guess the problem isn't actually the debt per se, but more his attitude towards money, and despite owing thousands he's always looking at the next "big purchase" (expensive hobbies) rather than focusing on getting it paid off.

I really like him, I can (hopefully) see a future for us, and our respective kids, plus maybe another 1, but unless the financial situation changes I can foresee major issues. I don't have a lot, but I dont owe anything, I can't really afford to subsidise his expensive tastes, or even his basic living costs (he's never asked me for money, I have offered little bits, never been accepted). I also guess that although it's still very early days, unless he dramatically changes, we'd never be able to afford a child together. I guess I also worry that whilst at the moment I can afford stuff for dd and I, if down the line we all moved in together, I would end up worse off, and wouldn't be able to provide the (few) "luxuries" that I can just now.

Am I worrying about nothing? Is it a major issue? ((((hopes I don't come across as a money grabbing bitch as its the las thing I am))))

Oh not sure whether it's relevant but he earns twice + what I do.

Sorry but this is a major issue in my opinion, my EXH started out with a few thousand pound debt when we met, I then found out later and after we had got married he was actually in 70k of debt, and the worse thing ..... He didn't care! He had a well paid job ect too but his attitude towards money was shocking,
I found one credit card bill he had spent £3k in 1 month!!???? WTF?
Anyway the lying bastard turned out to be a loser and was cheating on me, taking drugs regularly and drinking on a daily basis, hence EX H
everyone is different but from my experience its major red flags!

My H died with enough debt to wipe out any cash and even the mortgage was 60K more than when we bought the house 12 years ago with no insurance to pay it off. He abused 'ran' the family finances telling me I could not 'run a caravan'. Horseshit, I am making a much better job of it since he died over two years ago, though I reckon it will take me at least five years to get where we should have been at this stage of life.

I'd run for the hills if I were you, you know how to manage well, your P doesn't and you will 'buy' into his problem

Alvin Hall is good on debt issues. Could you buy your BF a copy of this www.amazon.co.uk/Get-out-Debt-Alvin-Hall/dp/0340833572 and having both read it, discuss the matter?

It may be that your views on debt/lifestyles are so diverse that it might be a deal breaker. It would for me, although I can appreciate just how hard that would be. Not sure how you could live together, for example, if he is going to continue to run up debts. A future accompanied by serious debt is not a happy prospect.

Alvin on the philosophy of debt/the accumulation of wealth; alvinhall.com/articles/pdf/AlvinHall10_Advantage.pdf

My experience is that different attitudes to money is a big potential worry. I was in a similar position to you (separated, on my way to divorce, with dc) - met the potential 'love of my love'. It sounds crazy but we really were so good together - laughed, learned, cooked, ate, and he was intelligent and gorgeous. We adored each other. He was in a great job with a good salary BUT his attitude to money was terrible. He would borrow money from his parents then spend it 3 times over. I think he lied to his insurance company to get a payout on a stolen car (and then spend more than he received). In some warped way, he could justify every spend that he made.

It was fine while we were both in the process of separating but once I made the financial settlement with my exh, I knew that I couldn't go on with him. The money I'd got was for me and my dc and our future. I might have been able to risk my own security but I couldn't risk not being able to have a decent home for my dc.

It broke our hearts, but it was a better decision than our relationship falling apart gradually because of his spending habits.

This is a mahoosive red flag, honey.

What happens if he loses his job and can't pay the interest payments on credit card/overdraft/loans etc, let alone reduce the outstanding debts.

With his cavalier attitude to money you'll never have a moment's peace worrying if the roof over your head will still be there in the morning

Unless he's willing to completely revise the way he handles his finances, I'd run a mile.

Oh dear - he sounds like me! :/

I couldn't be with someone in a serious relationship who didn't have what I consider to be a "sensible" attitude to money. But I may be influenced by my dad being rubbish with money.

Speaking from experience (exP, not DP) Id recommend you grab your purse and run for the hills!

Ah crap.

I was hoping I was being unreasonable (first time ever)

He's lovely and everything, but if I am honest I find myself being worse off than I causally should be because I am paying for stuff because I feel bad for his situation IYKWIM? Not that he asks, and he does pay for stuff, but I'd prefer to pay because I know what I can afford. Although by rights, that money should be for dd and I.

Fuckity fuck.

Well, there you go - he's already leading you down a slippery slope...

When we have dc we have to grow up and acquire all sorts of skills including handling money responsibly.

When it comes to your money, put your dd's needs first, yours second, and let his come a poor third.

As you've said, he's earning a good wage and there should be no need for you to bail him out or subsidise him in any way. In fact, if he's earning consideraby more than you, he should be treating you to little luxuries you can't ordinarily afford.

My STBXH was £15k in debt when we met and I helped him to sort it out but without giving him money. He always bought the best of everything , if he wanted it he bought it whether he could afford it or not. He had previously been bankrupt...

His brother ran up 40k of debt, mummy bailed him out by remortgaging her home and he did it all over again and went bankrupt.....

Do not give him any money. You need to decide if you want your life to be a debt ridden one with you paying for everything. I dudn't want that life and made it plain to my husband that I didn't want that life and he did become debt free.

Now that we are divorcing he is already reverting to his old ways and overspending....

Do you think it's possible for someone to sort themselves out? To change?

It is, but they have to want to do it, you can't make someone change their attitude towards money (or anything else).

Yes, I think people can change a bit in terms of management, but I'd think their fundamental attitudes wouldn't change much.

My DP has about £15k in debt left over from his younger days - he's now nearly 40. He used credit cards to buy what he couldn't afford, travelled quite a bit, and he loves to be generous; if his mum mentions wanting a DVD or a book, he'll get it for next time he sees her, and he's always first to buy a round.

But, he must be a lot better than he was. A few years ago (before we met) he consolidated all the cards into a loan at a lower rate, and since he's been living with me and therefore has lower living costs, he's overpaying so that we can afford to move/have children sooner. He's still always overdrawn, and inclined to buy me flowers when he's barely got enough money left for diesel, but given that he's usually taken me out for dinner and bought me a load of drinks earlier in the month, I don't mind helping him out when he runs out.

Our basic patterns (i.e. he's a spender, I'm a saver) probably won't change, but he manages himself better now, and between us we manage quite well.

I would not pursue this relationship myself, not on a serious level, given this debt/continued overspending. If someone had debt but was addressing it - yes. If someone spent everything but had no debt - yes. But a man, who has already been married, has children (so should have 'grown up'), has massive debts AND shows no sign of addressing it? No way.

He won't change, he's not a 20-something single bloke, he's a dad and he's still spending.

This is a deal breaker. Run.

Sounds like you want a 'project'. Fine, set your self a target and timeline - don't budge on these. Don't marry him, have separate accounts, don't let him have access to your accounts, no joint debts etc... See you back here in 6 months.

I'm not being mean. I think being financially unstable is like an addiction and abusive to those around you. My mum bankrolled her P for 20 years. She is now broke, single and very bitter. During this time, he could do no wrong. Every excuse and reason was used during this time about his lack of cash, she would never admit the truth because then she would have had to have done something about the situation and be proved wrong.

Whilst he enjoys his 'lifestyle' he won't change and certainly not whilst you're there to prop up the household and keep everything running - because you would have to for your/his DC.

"Do you think it's possible for someone to sort themselves out?"

It is but the operative word is 'themselves'. If, six months in, you're already paying for things because you feel sorry for him and want to help out then you are merely enabling his problem rather than forcing him to take responsibility, and you really have to stop.

Having been in a relationship with someone who had 'shandy money and champagne tastes', who I helped out financially, and who had no intention of ever taking responsibility, I would never do it again. The stress of the situation was too much and the arguments were monumental. 'Selfish' and 'reckless' are not good traits in a life-partner.

You are right.

I know this. I guess I was kidding myself.

He says he's trying to sort it but I can't see how it will be sorted when he is still spending every penny + more that he earns.

Before Dh and I split we had a very comfortable lifestyle, 2 or 3 holidays etc. I now know tat money doesnt equal happiness,and I'm content with the life dd and I will have, but I don't want to be skint because I'm bankrolling someone else, and subsequently end up in debt myself

Being charitable for a second, it could be that he cannot keep up with his debts and that he uses all his salary to finance the payments. Being uncharitable, he is lying about 'sorting it' and prefers the instant gratification of the next big purchase over the dreary, adult business of making arrangements to pay back what he owes.

You could lay it on the line that this is a very serious, make or break, matter for you and then see how he responds. If he is genuine about wanting to get matters sorted out he would seek debt advice (CAB, CCCS and National Debtline are all free services), put a payment plan together, demonstrate restraint, budgeting etc., etc. If he does none of those things then it's the old heave-ho and at least he's had due warning.

Money may not equal happiness but nothing is as miserable as being skint.