How do I deal with a low key toxic mother?

[VivaLeBeaver]

Mum and dad are long divorced so I can't use him as a go between.

I've come to the comclusion my mum is just a bit nasty. She was never the nicest when I was a kid, could be violent on occasion and never really took an interest in me or my brother.

She is the sort of person who falls out with everyone - every neighbour we've ever had, colleagues, every boss she's ever had, friends. Of course its never her fault, its always them! My brother didn't speak to her for a period of a few years though they are talking now.

She lives about 10 miles from me, though will not come to my house. Last time she came last Nov when I was ill in hospital she flipped her lid about the house been messy and vowed never to set foot in the place again. Which is fine, I go and see her or we meet for coffee.

That time when she was last here she really upset dd (11) and it took a few months for dd to speak to her/look at her. DD often states she hates her.

Anyway mum offered to take dd up to Yorkshire for a few days last week and dd seemed fairly keen. They've done it every year and while I was suprised dd wanted to this year I was pleased.

Mum dropped her off last night, literally bags and dd on the doorstep. By the time I opeend the front door mum was halfway down the drive and muttered goodbye over her shoulder and left. I'd have thought she would have had least exchanged pleasantries on the doorstep. Maybe she was tired I dunno.

DD states she's had a shit time and that mum has been having a go at her all week. Just little things - mum asked whether my ipad belonged to me or dd. DD told her we kind of share it. Mum then said that would be right as dd couldn't be trusted to look after snything, she couldn't even look after her cat. This upset dd, her cat got run over! Not her bloody fault.

Another day dd was playing with some kids in the village and there was some mown grass at the side of a track and they kicked some of the grass down onto the track. Some grass had already blown onto the track by itself. Mum came along and went nuts and made dd walk back along the track putting the grass back onto the verge even the stuff that had blown by itself. She then wouldn't let dd meet up with these kids again as she said that dd would be naughty again!

It does sound like the sort of thing she would say and do. However I know if I ask her about it she'll deny it and say dd is lying. My dd is more truthful than my mum. Then she'll shout at dd for lying. So I feel I don't want to confront her about it as dd will just get it in the neck.

I try not to have too much to do with her. I can easily go a few weeks without ringing her - then when I do she's been all passive aggressive. Speaking in a really snotty voice "oh, I wondered where you'd been, thought you might be dead". Obviously never crosses her mind that she hasn't rung me either.

I really feel like cutting contact for good. I'm just no good at confrontation and I feel guilty so I keep putting up with it!

I don't think you can see what we can see because you have been conditioned to accept your mum and make allowances, dc rarely dislike "normal" grandparents. For your dd to feel so strongly towards your mother is very very telling indeed.

Random is right. My DDs can't stand my parents, or my sister. I didn't realise just how much they disliked and tolerated them until last week.

Listen to your DD, and remember you don't need people like that in your life. Nobody does.

I agree. When you are manipulated, you have been conditioned to almost turn a blind eye. I can't verbalise it well. I am stronger when my mother is nasty to my brother or husband than when she is nasty to me.

I think you get so used to it that you don't feel it as much. It was something we noticed when we moved out and now wondered how we aren't more screwed up.

But she will still manipulate me with tears and sadness. The only time i can stand up to her is when i am protecting someone else

Viva your mother behaving like that in front of your DD - slagging you off especially - is being nasty to your DD. Really, it is.

i agree with random too

OP, I identify with how you feel. My mother was emotionally abusive to me as a child, and now in adulthood she treats me in a passive aggressive way, favours my sister, undermines me in front of my children, I could go on and on. Anyway, I rarely bother with her now, although she does contact me a lot and pops round, but I think she knows she has done the damage and she now has to reap what she has sown.

I have firm boundaries in place, and basically see her out of duty rather than wanting to.

I think Hex you hit it on the head about the sense of duty - the fact that my mum is elderly, lonely, single, my brother lives a long way away. I feel I have to see her.

Sardine, yes I suppose you're right. Her general ranty behaviour is being nasty to dd even if its not directed at her.

I do tell dd that my mum is a bit batty and to try and ignore all the crap.

DD's earliest memory is as a toddler sat on the sofa next to my dad when my mum came in the room and threw a washing up bowl of water over my dad which also soaked dd. That's a fairly shit first memory, though thankfully dd does find it funny.

My DF was an alcoholic but apart from that (usually only drunk one or two nights a week) he was a miserable, critical grumpy git, only pleasant if cajoled and coaxed by family members.

Good God, I wonder now what the hell we were all thinking of. Why on earth did we think we had to put up with this constant angry nastiness. My DM put up with it and carried on regardless but I doubt she could see what an effect the tiptoeing around scared to make a noise or do something which might disturb him had on us kids. Why we didn't stand up to him as teenagers I don't know.

With hindsight I realise something should have been done as it's had long term effects on our confidence and success in life.

So, OP, just don't put up with it. Stay away from her.

Viva, don't ring. I also agree with whoever mentioned reassuring your DD after what happened. Being on the receiving end of this type of behaviour can be v hard for a child/teenager, it can affect your self-steem/confidence.

Maybe setting some boundaries would help (if cutting contact isn't something you'd want)?

Reading the book helped me confirm her behaviour wasn't acceptable (and that it was not in my head or my perception only) as she'd always deny doing/saying things or would completely change the version of how things had happened. You can really start doubting yourself at times. I was young when I realised there was something wrong and when I decided "parent" didn't mean "you can do whatever you want with me" but managing to put measures in place so that her/her actions wouldn't affect me took much longer.

Yes i really think that having a talk with your DD about how your mum doing that is not normal or acceptable behaviour is a good thing.

Also about how you had issues growing up.

you can love someone and accept they are not a very nice person
and in fact you don't have to love anyone at all

It is important for your relationship with DD that she understands you are wanting to protect her, and at the same time that she is your mum and that is what makes it hard. Clearly if it were anyone else you would not accept this behaviour.

your DD is more important than your mum. Your dD is old enough to understand that actually granny is a total nightmare and always has been. As long as mum is there then that's fine isn't it

In my experience 11 is when my toxic mothers get worse. It is a time when generally children start voicing their independence. Up until then children tend to listen and take it all in. they start to voice their differing ideas. And that's a big no no.

Your mum will probably up the abuse of your daughter. So agreed with ending contact.

Something that hit me about my mother is that respect is earned, and while everyone one else says she's your mum. You should respect her. I think... No she has not earned a sliver of my respect. When you tell your 12 yr old daughter that you love them but don't like them, then you have lost ALL my respect.

Check out the stately homes thread. Really helped me.

Totally agree with Aussiebean - I was about this age when I started to voice my own views about the world at my grandmother (who up to that point had confined her very special brand of vileness to ripping my mum to shreds at every possible opportunity (never in front of my dad)) started on me. Trust your own instincts and what your daughter has said to you and decide what you want your relationship to be like from now on. Write to her or tell her in person what the ground rules are, then she has the choice of whether to maintain a relationship with you based on those rules or not seeing you at all.

Aussiebean, so so true. I was v little (maybe 6-7?) when I realised my mum kept giving events new "versions". I always called her up on it and my grandpa (dad's dad) always used to tell me "no my dear, you can't say it's a lie, that's your mum and you have to respect her; you mum doesn't lie, go and apologise". I very vividly remember thinking "but why??? she's lying!! I'm the one telling the truth and the one being told off". I couldn't help but feel very confused and unfairly treated.

My dad keeps saying those things even today, he grew up with that mentality "parents must be respected no matter what", to me that's bollocks it doesn't work like that.

Viva, has DD said anything else re. the trip?

I'm finding it very difficult to understand why you ever allowed your mother to have your dd on her own in the first place seeing how she is - your mother hasn't been a positive in your daughter's life has she? I would issue an ultimatum - stop with the nasty snidey remarks etc or I don't see you.

I can only see my mother if we are with another, more reasonable member of our family. As an only child I am a bit short of support, but that's the way it has to be.

Foolishly I have caved in to a week-long visit to her house at the end of the month as DS2 has never been there before and she lives far enough away that day-trips aren't practical especially as the travelling has to be done by the cheapest coach possible.

I'm dreading it, (especially as her sister and sister's husband have died since I was last there and her brother and his wife now have severe Alzheimers, so no familial buffer zone) but felt I couldn't put it off any longer. (She's in her 80's)

Hopefully the weather will be good and we can spend all day every day on the beach (please God).

OH has to stay at home as we have a menagerie that has to be pampered looked after and no pet-sitter (plus the fares would have been too expensive for all of us).

The only thing you can do with a mother like this is to cut contact and make sure that the contact you do have is in the company of other people. Be pleasant, polite, but firm, only then will you be able to retain your sanity.

'I do tell dd that my mum is a bit batty and to try and ignore all the crap.'

I think this makes it sound like your mum's basically ok, just a bit silly. From your op, it much worse than this, isn't it?

I urge you to reread Sardinequeen's post at 22.58- excellent advice.

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