Feeling low and fed up with my social crappness.....

[Cross99]

Oh where to start, I'm feeling very anxious about writing it down in the first place.

I've always struggled socially, every day is a struggle and I am much better one-on-one and really struggle in a group. I do have a good amount of friends, but they are not part of a bigger group - lots of seperate friends from different areas of my life. Although I always think that I should have a big group of friends who do things together and I do feel sad when I hear of people with a 'set' of friends.

I really hate the school playground. I always have done - I always feel like no one likes me, that I'm ok to talk to if everyone they normally talk to is busy. I know I have stupidly low self esteem which doesn't help I worry about what I'm saying, I feel all flustered and generally detest the 10 minutes or so a day that I have to do!

I became quite friends with one of the mums from school, who became part of a bigger already established group. She is outgoing and much more sociable than me. Initially I got invited along to things with this group (and her) but apart from a couple of time I made my excuses as I couldn't bear feeling uncomfortable all night worrying about my social ineptness.

Now her, as part of this group, are off doing all sorts of things together and I don't get invited at all anymore. Sometimes I overhear them arranging things and although I can't say for certain that I would go if I WERE invited, it makes me feel really low and worthless.

This situation has occured in the past with groups that I've become involved with and I'm now really wondering what on earth is wrong with me? Am I so horrid that no one wants to be friends with me once they get to know me? I hate feeling like this.

This is more of a rant than anything, I just wish my own happiness didn't depend on the validation of groups such as this.

You sound lovely and there are many people who would envy you for having lots of friends! I'm sure the reason you haven't been invited again to do things with the group is that you said no several times, so they assume you're not interested.

To be honest I think your social skills are probably fine and the problem is with your self-esteem. Have you considered some counselling?

Thank you Mooncup, I often reflect and think that I could do with a good bout of counselling but then things seem to be going ok and I put it to the back of my mind.

When I say 'lots' of friends it probably amounts to about 8 who I would call really good friends and about another 4 or so who I see a few times a month.

I hate self doubt. I just have this inner voice telling me that I'm crap and it's only a matter of time before people discover what I'm really like and ditch me. Unfortunatly when things happen (like mentioned above) or when a friendship fizzles out (even if it were instigated by me) then my inner voice kinds goes 'well I told you, you're shit Cross99).

Stupid insecurity, wonder if I can grow a pair and actually go for counselling :(

I'm a lot like you. I only have a few real friends, am fine in 1 on 1 or with just a very small group of people, but find social situations with large groups very intimidating. I just dont know what to say, and feel shy and awkward.
Not everything has to be done in large groups though. Perhaps you could invite just a couple of the mums you think are friendly round for a coffee or something? Or ask a group of 3 or 4 out for dinner? You dont always have to have 20 or 30 people doing everything!

Me too! One of things I'm looking forward to about the summer holidays is not having to stand in the playground feeling uncomfortable. Everyone is chatting all around and I hate it. But to be honest if everyone stood in silence i'd like that and only want to chat so i can 'fit in'. My youngest starts school in Sept and want to try again but scared in case I fail and spend the next 7 years stood alone!! I think i'm too fussy and want someone to click with. Or is that a defensive excuse!!

Thank you wfhmumoftwo and 4lovelychildren, am sorry you feel the same way too!.

It's a shame there isn't a magic potion for social awkwardness - one that made you stop looking so inward negatively.

I often think I'm too fussy too - I find idle chit chat really hard work, and also feel like I 'should' be nattering away to fit in. Big groups are extremely intimidating, I just stand there with nothing to say - I end up giggling nervously instead.

Here's to 6 weeks of no playgrounds!

I wonder if we need some tips?? Maybe someone to tell us what to say? Always feel worried I've said the wrong thing!!

OP - They stopped inviting you along because you refused a lot of the invitations and only ever went a couple of times. They probably aren't offended by you not going along, but have just assumed that you don't want to meet up with them. Honestly, really that is how it is. It is NOT because they don't like you or that you are unlikeable.

Thank you narniasnarnia, I really appreciate your positive take on the situation....I wish my insecurities would just 'do one' sometimes! On the flip side, even if I'm no longer invited because they don't like me then I really shouldn't care less - but I'll try working on that mindset!

4lovelychildren, yes a few phrases would be a good idea - I usually end up waffling about the weather while a string of spoonerisms decide to pick that moment to fly out of my mouth!

I am an introvert, the go to person when a crisis occurs, but not the party girl or the one at the centre (or even the edge) of a crowd. I hate the playground too...everyone seems so comfortable (but clearly they are not...look at us lot moaning here...we might even be in the same playgrounds).

My strategy (for what it is worth): see other mum/dad on own...walk over, " Hi, have you had a good day?" respond to what they say, ask if their DC likes what they are doing in class, then talk about the weather if all else fails. This works great so long as I don't pick another introvert like me who can't come up with a reply of more than 2 syllables.

Failing that arrive late and dash off...you don't have to talk to anyone that way!!!

OP, I don't get it - if you do want to go to these gathering why not just say to them (or one of them) 'Can I come along too?' when you overhear it - it's obvious that after your refusals they don't thinkyou aer interested, just ask, they are not going to say No!!

It's is such a relief to read that I am not the only one with school playground phobia!

Most days I stand alone, avoiding eye contact to discourage others from approaching me(for fear of rejection I suppose - while inside I feel sad because I would so like to connect with more people and form more friendships) but on some days I feel better about myself and seek out people I know a little to say hi or chat a little. When I have that kind of day and have managed to talk to somebody, I feel so much better for it, but I have always struggled to know how to move from aquaintance in the playgound to friend. I always imagine that they wouldn't want to be friends with me and keep to myself to avoid humiliation. It seems crazy that at 45 I haven't got this sorted out yet!

When my kids were at primary school, a mum who I'd always thought was aloof and didn't want to join in, approached me as we were leaving the school gates in the morning. She told me that she felt exactly like you OP - didn't feel comfortable in large groups, but felt isolated and in need of friendship. I admired her honesty tremendously and instantly asked her what I could do to help. She mentioned that she would like to start with the odd coffee after school with 1 or 2 of the other parents in the year group and so this is what we did for a few months. I never told the other mums about this conversation and gave the impression we had formed a friendship outside of school.

Although she was still very quiet during the first few meetings, gradually she joined in more and by the end of the year, even attended the parents' night out.

I can't think of many people who wouldn't respond to that type of request and who wouldn't admire the risk she'd taken in reaching out to someone she felt she could trust. Is there someone you feel instinctively you might click with and who would be willing to help? I remember feeling very flattered and privileged that she had chosen me to help her and I think most people would feel the same.

Ok op stop there. You are fine: you have many friends and recognise your vulnerabilities. You're 90 per cent there. Now for that other 10 per cent.

It's about forming genuine relationships with people, something you're good at. But if you want to transfer this to a school gate group the dynamics are different. You have to accept ever social invitation. If you can't make sure people know that it's because you have something better going on. Be proactive, those who invite are invited, not always but enough. Never bitch but join in the gossip. If cornered say, you know I just want a good night out. Always smile, always keep it light. Help others and offer help in abundance. Develope a thick hide. At the school gate have a script, that includes other people. Text, text then text again. It's exhausting, but maybe if you're lucky you'll find people who will actually be good friends. Which is the whole point.

But is it worth it? dD1 finishes primary tomorrow. I've tied myself in knots over keeping in with the in-crowd and to be blunt the only person I really care about and have a genuine friendship with is an older mum who never goes to anything, is not included by anyone and is viewed as an oddball. I think she's fascinating, wise and wonderful and I much prefer my time with her to any social gathering with the "group". Be careful what you wish for.

I know how you feel OP. I am an introvert too. I am always best one on one with freinds. I tend to be rubbish in groups. I have just come to learn over the years that it is how I am. There is nothing wrong with me, I just wallflower in groups, not a cliquy sort, rubbish at doing the gang of girls things.

Try not to set your self up to be what you think you should be can just be too much. Be happy with who you are.

Can you reflect back and remember what your body language is like?

saffycat has hit the nail on the head!

• Do you turn away?

• Do you speak to someone else?

• Do you fumble in your handbag or pretend that you have a message on your phone?

• Do you look fixedly on where your DCs will appear from (school gate)?

Sometimes the other parents are trying to 'judge' how you would accept an invitation to join in. So if your body language signalled "don't speak to me" then you won't be invited because the other Mums also don't want to be rejected.

Are you comfortable in the company of other people or do you 'isolate yourself' inside your own comfort zone?

If you really want to be invited to join the group:

• Smile as you approach the other Mums
• Don't look at the pavement - keep your head up
• Have a sentence to say (not about the weather): Did you see that [store] have 10% off on grey jumpers (school uniform)
• Or, have a question to ask: "Hi, I am glad I caught up with you! Do you know how to get a [stain] out of jeans?

You can get CBT for social anxiety disorder via your GP - just ask. It's a very common problem and CBT can help up to 75% of people with the condition. You might also want to buy a book called something like "Overcoming shyness and social anxiety". Amazon usually stock it. Good luck.

Mooncup said: You sound lovely and there are many people who would envy you for having lots of friends!

Cross said: When I say 'lots' of friends it probably amounts to about 8 who I would call really good friends and about another 4 or so who I see a few times a month.

Me nods That is a lot of friends. How many 'really good' friends do you think most people have?

I have a lot of problems with anxiety (I have agrophobia, so don't go out on my own much). I have a grand total (excluding my DH) of two close friends. One of whom works off shore for weeks and weeks at a time.

The other one is part of a larger group of people who I'm friendly towards but don't often socialise with much at all. My close friend often invites me along to stuff with the rest of this group, and is really understanding that I rarely accept. They know I find going out difficult and therefore don't take it personally that I don't usually join them and still extend invitations and news through my close friend.

It sounds like the problem, if you have one, isn't the number of friends you have, but your feelings of anxiety and awkwardness when in larger groups or with those you don't know well. Lots of people are like this, we're introverts. If it is affecting your happiness though, you can look at counselling/self help around social anxiety.

Everything is relative. My DH comes across as much more confident than me in social situations, he'll speak his mind etc. But he wishes he had close friends like my two, and doesn't know how to go about creating deeper friendships with aquintences. So to him, my two close friends are enviable riches of friends, even though they are both friendly with him, and one has a DP who would be happy to spend more time with him. But my DH feels too awkward I think to accept.

Hi.

I actually think that a few friends who don't necessarily know each other is a better set up anyway.

When there is a big group or set of friends there is (IME) underlying politics, bitchiness and a general sense of things going on that not everyone knows about. If person A falls out with person B, they tell person C, who then falls out with person B. But actually person A forgot to say one small detail and so now person C is friends again with person B and has fallen out with person A. ARGH!

One on one time with individual friends is far nicer IMO, nice and relaxed and if anyone offends anyone else it can get sorted out without turning a mountain into a molehill.

Your set up sounds lovely, I guess you just need to put into place some of this tips above to start to enjoy it, as it doesn't sound like you do at all .

You have lots of friends by most people's standards, and I really think big groups were more from school and college, very few people really hang in big groups, even these mums may go out a few times then people move/drop away/fall out.

You are idealising something you don't have (when most people don't have it) and not appreciating what you do have (which many people do not and would like it).

The playground is a different issue, do what you have to do there, why not just drop them in the car and run (I do some days) if you don't like the interaction. Don't try to get into big existing groups or get upset if you are not invited out, neither are most of the mums, you are putting way too much store by this type of social acceptance.

I don't have a big group of friends, lots of people don't. In fact I don't particularly like doing things in a big group, so it doesn't bother me. Most of my socialising involves things like me and DH meeting up with another couple, or me going for a coffee/lunch/drinks with one friend.

8 'really good friends' sounds like lots to me. I have two (which is two more than I've had at various points in my life!). It sounds like you're doing fine - if you can start and maintain that many friendships, you can't be all that unlikeable or socially inept!

I agree that if people stop inviting you along it's probably because you've refused invitations/made excuses to leave/generally given the impression that you didn't want to be involved.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this thread. I really wanted to say thank you all for the time, kind words and advice you have given me.

I'm sorry so many of you feel the same way, especially about the school playground.

I'm going to spend the Summer Holidays concentrating on those that matter to me, instead of chasing after things/people/events that are really not important.

I do wonder if I have slight depression as social situations do tend to put me on a downward spiral :(

Many thanks again to you all.