Don't think DH loves me

[GonePostal]

Out of a storm-in-a-teacup row this evening, DH and I have ended up having a long hard talk about his persistent sadness.

He hates our house.
He hates our cats.
His life is a round of chores, stress, dull, no fun.

We never do anything together, so he doesn't know what our relationship is beyond merely functioning together.
He loves our eldest DC and his times with him are the only bright spots.
It has been a shitty day and a shitty 5 years.

Amongst his various comments about life was nothing about me. Other than nagging him and co-running the household with him, I don't think I really feature - certainly not as an individual, or a positive. The absence of me in his world view felt very telling and it's the first time it's occurred to me that he is no longer in love with me - or even that he doesn't particularly like me.

I love him. He is incredibly special when he is happy. I wish he weren't so sad. It grinds me down. I spend hours talking with him about him. He, and his sadness, is our main topic of conversation.

It hasn't occurred to him to split - he has no plan beyond being miserable and inflicting that on me for the foreseeable future.

I know it will be suggested that he could be depressed. He will not countenance this or doing anything about it.

I love him. I want our family to stay together. It seems crazy to leave. I talk about it - about whether a trial separation would give him an idea of whether he'd be better without me - but it doesn't seem real. I put it to him that he doesn't love me and he doesn't really answer.

Surely if you love someone the least you would do is assure them of that?

I don't know what I'm asking here. Just feel minimised and scared.

Oh goodness OP I am in exactly this situation.

Tonight my DP (in a rare moment of communication) told me he had no role or place in the family.

This despite my (apparently futile) attempts to support him through a seemingly unending mid-life-crisis/what's the point in life-I can't cope with the drudgery/ 2+ years antidepressants

You aren't responsible for his moods, he is.
It is his perception, i.e. that everything is 'shit', that makes him unhappy. Everything is not shit. It is normal, married life.
Go about your daily business with the DCs. Achieve goals, have fun, make memories. He will probably get worse at first, as he realizes you have detached from being his therapist, then hopefully he'll get over himself.
Better still, maybe you will have gotten over him.

If he is chronically depressed it's a real problem that he won't do anything about it. I have suffered with fairly major depression in the past and I was absolutely awful to live with - a total drain on everyone else's happiness because I was such a black hole of negativity and inertia. Depressed people are mentally ill and part of their mental illness is being incredibly self-obsessed and self-pitying and that is really hard to put up with. Long-term I don't you should have to put up with it if there is no prospect of it ever getting better.

One of the turning points in my depression was the person I loved and trusted most in the world saying 'I can't help you any more because it just doesn't work - you've got to start helping yourself'. It made me realise that I needed to take responsibility for my own happiness (although, at the same time I made a pact with myself that if I tried really hard to get better and still felt as bad afterwards I would kill myself). Perhaps something as shocking as you saying you love him but you can't live with him any more with no prospect of things changing and that if he won't seek help he will have to live on his own will spur him onto doing something about how he is feeling. But also perhaps it won't - it's a really tough call. (BTW seeing a psychoanalyst really helped with my depression, but it took 18 months of therapy and lots of anti-depressants before I turned a corner. Once I did though I have never been seriously depressed again.)

Thanks for all the replies and the sympathy.

It is very hard. I don't know what to do. I'm nowhere near being able to leave him, even though he is very self-obsessed and his moods hit most of our weekends in a bad way. The reasons for his mood swings are a moveable feast, so we never manage to address the problem.

(On weeknights he's pretty fuelled by what's happened at work; he talks that out of his system and then generally doesn't have to do much beyond watch TV).

I'd love to be able take Chandon and Constance's advice - ie ignore it. I lack the self-restraint and always somehow get into the cheering up-analysing-fitting cycle. He gets masses of attention (both positive and negative) for his behaviour and I'm sure it feeds the problem. I've really really got to learn to bite my tongue and not step in.

I also need to find some weekend activities; my weeks at home are chock full of friends, outings and plans. On weekends, all of those friends become couples, doing family stuff and I'm at bit at sea for something to do without DH. But it has to be done. And then I have to work out how not to be resentful of the fact that he will be lazing around at home...

fighting not fitting! The fights aren't that bad!

'The reasons for his mood swings are a moveable feast, so we never manage to address the problem.'

I must say, this does sound like he kicks off when he's not 100% happy with anything and doesn't ever try to address the problem.

Could you try setting a time limit (in your head or explicitly) to discussing his problems, and then cheerfully detach and do something else? Or if you find yourself drawn into the same conversation for the 99th time just say, 'Well, we've discussed this before and I don't feel we're getting anywhere, and I really have to put a load of washing on?'

Gonepostal, the weekends can be tricky! I do things with the kids though, write them in the diary, and sort of don't count on him. I take them swimming, then we have lunch in the cafe. I even take them up to see his parents without him (no hardship, I like my ILs).

Interestingly, that approach means he very often ends up very keen to join in.

(He is only like this in patches, I do not (would not)! live with it constantly)

What he wants is to use you as an emotional punchbag, so no matter what you do it isn't going to be enough. You could try just shrugging and saying 'Tough shit' the next time a whinefest begins, but unfortunately that's more likely to provoke him to aggression than to make him get a grip, because he is massively selfish.

I really would suggest making plans to leave or put him out of the house, living with a waste of oxygen like him is no good for either you or the children.

I totally agree with sgb.

My XH started down these lines, he was perennially miserable, couldn'tseem to put his finger on why, and I fell into the trap of trying to care for him and make things better in case it was due to stress/depression. It wasn't, he was just a selfish fucker having a midlife crisis. I got into a ridiculous situation where I did absolutely everything at home and for the dc's while he either swanned about on work jollies, was out doing hobbies or relaxing while he was in the house.

Eventually, one day he snapped at me that I didn't make him happy, and that was my lightbulb moment. I asked him to leave and didn't look back. It also later transpired that there was someone else involved, which I think was a huge amount to do with it all.

Please don't indulge this. If he's unwell, urge him to seek help. Otherwise, I'd call his bluff and make him consider how much he has to lose.

curlywurly - that's the scenario I fear. Not particularly the affair, which I don't remotely think is on the radar at the moment, but a life in which I do everything and he is still not happy.

I've spent much of today positively seething about some of the things he said on Sunday. Much of it was honest - for example, that he acknowledges that in practice he is a bit sexist even though he wants to hold himself to a much higher standard and is judgmental about friends who treat their wives like doormats.

I am struggling to digest the implications of this admission. It is one thing to view him as lazy (which he is; I am too and can understand needing to be pushed into helping out). It is another thing altogether to face up to the fact that he might be sexist and view himself as being above day-to-day drudgery (and superior to me) because he possesses a penis. That when he is being helpful, he is resenting me for having to do whatever shitty chore he is engaged in, or for his peace being disrupted.

He points out (rightly) that he's much better at pulling his weight than most of our male friends and thinks I hold him to an impossible standard (hence his comment about not living in the real world when I demand equality - he means that most men out there are sexist and I'd be unlikely to find someone better in this respect). But the helpfulness is completely undermined surely if he punishes me with foul moods?

But then I spoke to him (about something completely different) and my anger fell away. He's lovely. I love him. I think that I tend to demonise him when I mull these things over and I'm not sure that the episodes are really as bad or as long lasting as I portray.

SGB I am grateful for your input. I am not ready to leave him yet. I just can't. That would be an empty threat. But it is helpful to hear that someone else thinks that his behaviour is massively selfish and hopefully will give me the strength I need to ignore the next sulk.

It wouldn't ever become aggressive, BTW, but he is very good at moping about looking pissed off. I wonder at what point he'd snap out of it. Will have to see.

Hmm... Call me cynical but that sounds awfully like an eloquent way of threatening "you'll never find anyone better than me"

Of course there are men who are not sexist! FGS just because your sexist husband thinks people you know are also sexist why does that make you unreasonable for wanting to be treated as an equal?! I mean come on... That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever hear surely?!

The original thread was "I don't think DH loves me" it is turning into, "he probably does love me but not as an equal because I'm female and he is sexist so I guess that's not as bad as I thought and something I can put up with" if it is that it is a million times worse than him not loving you anymore... A million times worse and it will teach your children about men and women's "places"...

You must know now that he's depressed, with a large side order of male entitlement and selfishness. I've never heard of a trial separation that didn't end with full separation, so if you go down that route, you would need to be prepared for that eventuality. FWIW, I think you need to be really clear with yourself about what you will or won't accept in relationship, what is the bottom line. If it's him changing, then he must want to change himself, not you making it better for him. From a practical point of view, can you arrange a few things in the next few days that you will enjoy - coffee with friends, lunch with a family member, something to keep some balance and perspective. Good luck xxx

Things sound really tough for you right now. I think your dp is treating you badly, but since you don't want to end things I will try to be constructive.

I think your dp sounds very low. It would be ideal if he'd see his GP, but I know you don't think he will. Would it make a difference to him to know there are ways to treat depression without drugs? CBT is very good. If he really won't go, you could go and speak to the GP alone, this is not uncommon. A good GP can sometimes get a reluctant patient to talk to them.

I think a lot of parents go through a period where they feel like they're losing their identity, your dp might feel this way. There's nothing wrong with him taking some time to be alone or do a hobby or whatever makes him feel more like him, as long as he facilitates you having equal time off. Things cannot ever go back to the way they were pre-children, and I don't think it would help to give your dp the idea that he can go off with no strings attached. Your dp needs to settle on an identity which encompasses his roles as a parent and partner, not ignores them.

Whatever happens, do not let your dp out of contributing to the household in terms of housework and childcare. If you do, I think it will be hard to go back, and you are not really addressing the problem, just letting him pretend he is young and free again when really he has responsibilities.

I think if nothing changes you will need to look at your relationship again, as I don't see how you could live in this situation and it not effect your own mood. You also need to think about how his refusal to share the drudge work equally might effect your own self-esteem, your kid's self-esteem and future relationships, and how your kids will view you.

I would beware self diagnosing him with depression. If there is something wrong then he should be diagnosed by professionals, doing it yourself is just making excuses for him. I also think there are two explanations for people who say "I'm unhappy" 1. They are dissatisfied and low and 2. They are abusive and trying to make a point about how you are failing. Sometimes one goes with the other but I do think coupled with everything else and the "you shouldn't expect equality" crap there is a good dollop of the latter in there.